coticule vs ss12k?

[jigane]

Can anyone describe the differences in feel of a an edge after honing on these 2 stones (the cot would be the current production ones).

[Kristian]

A coticule is a natural stone. The Naniwa 12 is a synthetic. A coticule can leave a very smooth edge. With a master honer it will be very pleasant. Every coticule are different. But every SS12k will be the same.

I find both edges very good. The Naniwa is perhaps a bit sharper.

[DoughBoy68]

Besides using a Coticule to sharpen a blade there are times that after I've honed a razor with synthetic hones the edge will feel a little harsh. So, I break out the Coticule to 'soften/smooth' the edge.

[jigane]

So a coticule is not really that bad? Its just different than a ss12k?

I have a coticule and I just wondered if there is anything to gain really. and what the benefits/tradeoffs are.

[Utopian]

Here is the problem/complication...
I have over 30 coticules and 2 Naniwa SuperStones 12k hones. The two 12k hones are identical in their performance. I cannot tell one from the other when judging their performanc.

The coticules vary in many ways. For that reason, I cannot compare coticules in general to the 12k synthetics. I especially cannot compare YOUR coticule to that 12k hone.

If you really want to compare your coticule to a SS12k, then you will either have to buy one, borrow one, or have someone in Europe hone a razor on their SS12k and send it to you. Then you can compare the edge off of that hone to the edge off of your coticule.

Regarding your specific question. "I have a coticule and I just wondered if there is anything to gain really. and what the benefits/tradeoffs are." The benefit of the 12k is that you will be able to use a hone that is exactly like a lot of other peoples' hones. This is helpful for conversations here. Other than that, it really is a matter of whether or not you are satisfied with the shave you get from your coticule. Chasing after a better and better hone will not get you a shave that is much better.

[Druid]

Here is the problem/complication...
I have over 30 coticules and 2 Naniwa SuperStones 12k hones. The two 12k hones are identical in their performance. I cannot tell one from the other when judging their performanc.

The coticules vary in many ways. For that reason, I cannot compare coticules in general to the 12k synthetics. I especially cannot compare YOUR coticule to that 12k hone.

If you really want to compare your coticule to a SS12k, then you will either have to buy one, borrow one, or have someone in Europe hone a razor on their SS12k and send it to you. Then you can compare the edge off of that hone to the edge off of your coticule.

Regarding your specific question. "I have a coticule and I just wondered if there is anything to gain really. and what the benefits/tradeoffs are." The benefit of the 12k is that you will be able to use a hone that is exactly like a lot of other peoples' hones. This is helpful for conversations here. Other than that, it really is a matter of whether or not you are satisfied with the shave you get from your coticule. Chasing after a better and better hone will not get you a shave that is much better.

This post about says it all.

I've got a lot of coticules, and they are all different. Out of the many different layers, I use only two .. La Veinnette's from the old mine, and I prefer them over a 12K Superstone, but it's easier to get where you are going on the synthetic .. the price, for me being a slightly more harsh shave.
I've read that, given enough time and patience, a great edge can be coaxed from any coticule. It hasn't worked for me, but perhaps a more experienced coticule aficionado can coax that forth. They do vary quite a bit.
I have zero experience with the currently mined stones.

There's properties I don't like about the SuperStones also, but they do have a nice honing feel, and do deliver the goods rather simply.

[Wid]

Here is the problem/complication...
I have over 30 coticules and 2 Naniwa SuperStones 12k hones. The two 12k hones are identical in their performance. I cannot tell one from the other when judging their performanc.

The coticules vary in many ways. For that reason, I cannot compare coticules in general to the 12k synthetics. I especially cannot compare YOUR coticule to that 12k hone.

If you really want to compare your coticule to a SS12k, then you will either have to buy one, borrow one, or have someone in Europe hone a razor on their SS12k and send it to you. Then you can compare the edge off of that hone to the edge off of your coticule.

Regarding your specific question. "I have a coticule and I just wondered if there is anything to gain really. and what the benefits/tradeoffs are." The benefit of the 12k is that you will be able to use a hone that is exactly like a lot of other peoples' hones. This is helpful for conversations here. Other than that, it really is a matter of whether or not you are satisfied with the shave you get from your coticule. Chasing after a better and better hone will not get you a shave that is much better.

Great post. I would add that in general the coti edge will not feel as sharp as a 12K edge. At least that's what I found with my stones, YMMV.

[DoughBoy68]

As Utopian said it is complicated and to add to the complication is the fact that when it comes to naturals be it Coticule, Chinese 12K, etc. the performance will differ from stone to stone depending on what vein/layer the stone came from plus the composition of the minerals in that particular layer. It is very hard to assign a grit number to natural stones. Here is a link to the web site to check out some of the different methods used in honing with a Coticule;
http://www.coticule.be/home.html

As far as synthetics go the material that goes into each particular grit is pretty much controlled at the location producing said stone therefore you have equal consistency in the stones which makes it easier to assign a grit number.

Personally, I prefer edges off natural stones and the Coticule leaves a particularly smooth edge on Sheffield razors. I may create the bevel and do some of the sharpening on synthetics but finish and polish with naturals as they most generally leave a smoother edge than synthetics.

[Kristian]

These are my beauty's. And to complement the picture the SS 12 K.

Every coticule is different, but I still love them all. Must of them are excellent finishers. They do have different properties, some are faster, and are slow and harder.

The two green ones are harder, but finer. I have 3 hybrids. Two are great finishers, some of my finest, but the last one is more like 5-8K.

Number 3 from right first row, the one with the slurry stone, is very fast one. I exchanged it with another hone and the old owner didn't like it, since it's not a finisher. It's rather from 3-7k. Therefore it fit great in a progression, especially when restoring a razor that's need attention.

On a coticule you need patience and more time. The perfect edge comes with diluting the slurry, adjusting the pressure, adding water and so on.

A Naniwa is very fast. Only about 15 laps is needed. The Naniwa SS stones tend to be cloaked with debris from honing and need to be cleaned often. I practically never clean my coticules.

I love both kinds of hones. And can say which is the best. Sometime a Naniwa is the best choice if I'm in a hurry and sometime a coticule is the best.

I think that the 12k is a bit sharper then the coticule, which on the other hand is a bit more smooth. If you are new to honing a Naniwa will be the best choice. It's very fast and easy to use.

[jigane]

thanks guys.