Thread: smooth vs sharp - how to

Originally Posted by kaptain_zero

I've had a love/hate relationship with my big Coticule..... it just did not seem to create the edge I was looking for. 10 years later, a local chap whom I got going in the straight razor madness, picked up an old stone at an antique shop for $10 or something like that and when it was cleaned up, it was clearly a Coticule hone. He used that hone in ways I never did, and offered a honed blade to me for my "opinion" on his edges. My jaw hit the floor... it was the nicest edge I'd ever shaved with! After hearing how he was honing the edge, I gave the same treatment to one my my razors on my disgusting, I should really sell it, Coticule. Today, the stone is NOT FOR SALE!

I know what you mean kaptain. I hope they toss my coticule and a handful of razors in my casket for heavenly shaves in the hereafter.

Originally Posted by sloanwinters

euclid and kaptain - thank you both for taking the time to offer up your knowledge and experience. much appreciated.

yes i have the naniwa 12k. i also have a coticule and zulu grey as well. but have been hesitant to switch from synthetic to natural in my progression.

All I can say is give it a try, assuming you have at least 2 razors! I do all my work on ugly junkers.... razors that will NEVER be good looking, but have plenty of life left, no issues other than unsightly pits and tarnish. Hone up what you consider a great edge on the 12K, then move on to either the Coti or the Zulu, don't be afraid to spend some time doing ultralight laps.... Most of my naturals seem to take at least 100 laps to be noticeable, but then even the fast synthetics seem slower for me than for other gents, so perhaps I'm just very light handed when I hone?

I will say though.... I seem to be having some good luck using a hard knit wool material stretched over a piece of wood and treated with some ChromeOx paste. After I'm convinced I've gone far enough with a natural, I will do 5 to 7 laps on the wool/CrOx to hopefully remove any faint wire edges that *may* have developed, and then go back to the hone for another 10 super light laps. Dry and strop... I generally only use my finest leather strop after a hone job.... after the shave, I do 10 very light laps on a linen strop and place the razor on one of the floor vents as we have forced air heating, but the fan runs 24/7 all the time so it filters the air.... it makes a very convenient place to dry a razor. I just have to remember to keep the door to the room closed so the cat doesn't bat it around!

When it's time to shave again, I give the razor 30 to 50 laps on leather.

The use of Crox on wool stems from my reading a translated book written by Kousuke Iwasaki.

I'll quote a few relevant paragraphs, and as I'm over 50, apparently I have withered arms?!?!? :

4. Removing the False Edge
In order to remove the very fine false edge create by the Honyama hone, you need a hone with
particles finer than those of the Honyama. Many people believe this false edge can be removed with
a leather or linen strop, but in reality, if you look closely it doesn’t work that way. In this situation, I
bring out a man-made abrasive made for use in mirror-polishing, called “Green Powder”
(Chromium Oxide). Mix this with water and spread it onto the previously-prepared Raxa hone. Thevolume should be very small, just enough to turn the cloth slightly green is plenty. There are
undoubtedly people who tend to over apply, but it’s best not to use very much.
Green Powder is far and away finer than Honyama grit particles, so it is well suited to removing the
false edge created by the Honyama. On the above described Raxa hone, hone your razor or
Kamisori spine-leading in a V pattern. Apply light pressure along the edge, and do 3 laps (6 strokes
total); there are some inexperienced people who, because they apply pressure to the spine, fail to
remove the false edge and so they will need to repeat this another 6 times or so. However, if the
false edge is very, very fine, one or two passes might be sufficient.
The time needed should only be about 10 seconds or so. If you check this edge under a microscope,
you will see a beautiful straight line along your edge, which is enough to impress anyone.
After this, it’s often possible to use the razor without even stropping. There should be absolutely no
irritation or pain from it. However, somehow the edge might feel slightly “heavy”. For
inexperienced women hairdressers or older people in their fifties with withered arms, I recommend
being satisfied with this.

And for wool substrate, I substituted some nice 100% hard knit wool (the kind used for dress pants) from my local tailor, but here again Iwasaki explains what a Raxa hone is:

Raxa Hones (Pasted strop) [“Raxa” is from Portuguese, meaning “wool cloth”. Apparently, the
pronunciation in Japan is “Rasha.”--JDR]
Make a Raxa hone by sticking a scrap of wool cloth onto a small wooden board with tacks. [In the
original, he recommended a Kamaboko Board, a small wooden platter used in cooking and serving
a steamed fish paste, it's about 15x5 cm.--JDR]. Onto this, spread a mixture of water and the
abrasive called "Green Powder" (Chromium Oxide). Use this to remove the extremely fine "false
edge" left by the honyama hone. I've tried using wood or the back of a leather strop with this
powder, but with each one I found that it caused some chipping on the blade, so it's best not to use
either.

Once you start chasing the *perfect* edge, it becomes a fascinating but at times tedious journey. The ugly truth is that you cannot *buy* your way to the perfect edge, you can only practice your skills until you achieve it. As they used to say in stock car racing; "Run whatcha brung, you'll never win a race with that car you can only dream of owning". You already have all the hones you need to achieve an excellent edge, you just need practice.

If you know how to produce a "decent" edge, you'll always have fine shaves with your other razor(s) while you search for that better edge. It never hurts to bring your regular razor along when you go to test your freshly honed super edge.... (sometimes, you may have to go back to ol' reliable, and if you brought it along.... it's easy). And once you are spoiled by the ultimate edge... you'll be honing before every shave, trying to re-create that last perfect shave (or worse, trying to improve on it). It never ends.......<sigh>


Regards

Christian

Originally Posted by kaptain_zero

All I can say is give it a try, assuming you have at least 2 razors! I do all my work on ugly junkers.... razors that will NEVER be good looking, but have plenty of life left, no issues other than unsightly pits and tarnish. Hone up what you consider a great edge on the 12K, then move on to either the Coti or the Zulu, don't be afraid to spend some time doing ultralight laps.... Most of my naturals seem to take at least 100 laps to be noticeable, but then even the fast synthetics seem slower for me than for other gents, so perhaps I'm just very light handed when I hone?

I will say though.... I seem to be having some good luck using a hard knit wool material stretched over a piece of wood and treated with some ChromeOx paste. After I'm convinced I've gone far enough with a natural, I will do 5 to 7 laps on the wool/CrOx to hopefully remove any faint wire edges that *may* have developed, and then go back to the hone for another 10 super light laps. Dry and strop... I generally only use my finest leather strop after a hone job.... after the shave, I do 10 very light laps on a linen strop and place the razor on one of the floor vents as we have forced air heating, but the fan runs 24/7 all the time so it filters the air.... it makes a very convenient place to dry a razor. I just have to remember to keep the door to the room closed so the cat doesn't bat it around!

When it's time to shave again, I give the razor 30 to 50 laps on leather.

The use of Crox on wool stems from my reading a translated book written by Kousuke Iwasaki.

I'll quote a few relevant paragraphs, and as I'm over 50, apparently I have withered arms?!?!? :



And for wool substrate, I substituted some nice 100% hard knit wool (the kind used for dress pants) from my local tailor, but here again Iwasaki explains what a Raxa hone is:




Once you start chasing the *perfect* edge, it becomes a fascinating but at times tedious journey. The ugly truth is that you cannot *buy* your way to the perfect edge, you can only practice your skills until you achieve it. As they used to say in stock car racing; "Run whatcha brung, you'll never win a race with that car you can only dream of owning". You already have all the hones you need to achieve an excellent edge, you just need practice.

If you know how to produce a "decent" edge, you'll always have fine shaves with your other razor(s) while you search for that better edge. It never hurts to bring your regular razor along when you go to test your freshly honed super edge.... (sometimes, you may have to go back to ol' reliable, and if you brought it along.... it's easy). And once you are spoiled by the ultimate edge... you'll be honing before every shave, trying to re-create that last perfect shave (or worse, trying to improve on it). It never ends.......<sigh>


Regards

Christian

You may have withered arms but at least you aren't an inexperienced woman hairdresser.

Originally Posted by gcbryan

You may have withered arms but at least you aren't an inexperienced woman hairdresser.

True, so true.

So far I've found that my SB Arkansas can often bring smoothness and keenness into near perfect harmony as long as the bevel is well handled prior to finishing work. It seems to provide the best balance for me at least.

My 2cents: The bevel must be set, each stone must smooth out the striations of the previous stone, your stropping must be on point.