Thread: Arkansas

Originally Posted by STF

No, I'm still waiting for it

Hopefully should be with you soon as mine arrived the other day. I've been stuck rebuilding the deck for the last little while but hope to introduce this to my chisels and plane irons soon.

Hope you got your trans in Steve. Waiting stinks. So here is something you might want to try. You asked about a full ark progression. This is a method I've been refining for a while.
I have this one razor that has been problematic. When I got it it was supposed to be shave ready which it wasn't, or not by my standards at least. I have tried to touch it up and it was no better really so I took it back to bevel set to start over. This thread and your question came to mind so I figured this would be a good example for a full ark progression. Bear in mind though these hones were inherited and I don't really know what all of them are.

So I started with this soft/ medium which I lapped rough on one side and to 600-800 w/d (maybe 1k, honestly I don't really remember) on the other.


I did 200 strokes on one side with fairly heavy pressure, checking until I got a definite bur and then did the same 200 on the other side. Yep, even more definitive bur on that side. (I should clarify here that when I say "strokes" I mean 1 half of a x stroke but down and then back up to where it started with the blade still on the stone. In reality this is really 2 strokes. One down and one back up but I'm counting them as 1. This is what I'm calling "back and forth" strokes) After that 100 "regular x strokes" (by which I mean just down, not back up and alternating sides of the blade) on the same side of the stone lightening pressure toward the end. Now flipped the stone and do sets of 10 back and forth for about 200. Lighter pressure as I go.

Now to the wood block mounted stone.

This one I finished to 1k.

Same thing here: sets of 10 back and forth for 200 or so as usual lighter pressure as I go.
Now to the small white hard/trans/true hard... whatever it is.

This one I finished to 3k on one side.

Same as before: sets of 10 but I think I did about 200 back and forth on the rough side then about 300 or so on the smooth side. After this I switched to regular x strokes for 100 and by the end of this the pressure is so light the blade is nearly levitating.
OH! Almost forgot to mention that between each stage I put the blade flat lengthwise on the stone and do about ¼" push pull strokes, about 20-30 each side of the blade.

Now I know someone is going to fuss at me or tell me (and you vicariously) that I am doing it wrong or have some better way since that is what usually happens. All I am saying is "TRY IT" this thing was problematic before as I said and now it is unreal comfortable. I've had others that seem to have more laser keen sharpness but I doubt any more comfortable. No sting from the alum Block except one spot I leaned a little hard under the chin and only a little more than the amount of sting from the rubbing alcohol you'd expect using it without shaving.
Unlike the pyramid (which gets groans at the very mention in these parts) I don't REALLY count except during bevel set. There I count as I do the first side till I'm satisfied with the bur then do the same amount of strokes on the other side to even it out before going on.
The other thing is I didn't look at the edge with magnification. Again, before I get fussed at, I'm NOT saying not to. Lord knows I don't want to ruffle any feathers. I could have looked at it but I just wanted to try to trust the method. I've been working on it for a while now and I just wanted to test how well the method is going without getting all analytical looking at it. Plus my dad never used magnification and neither did the old school barbers years ago. Of course 100 years ago people used to crap in a hole in the ground. Just because they used to do it doesn't mean it's the right way but it was just sort of an exercise.
As I say I've been sort of developing this method for a while, I'm sure I'm not the first to do it but it's been a new method for me. I've found it to work very well and I really love the smoothness of that ark progression bevel set to finish.

Originally Posted by PaulFLUS;1916869

Hope you got your trans in Steve. Waiting stinks.

Now I know someone is going to fuss at me or tell me (and you vicariously) that I am doing it wrong or have some better way since that is what usually happens. All I am saying is "TRY IT" this thing was problematic before as I said and now it is unreal comfortable.

Hi Paul, I will try it and i would certainly not disagree with anyone regarding their honing techniques, I have just had a quick look down the honing rabbit hole and it was deep and scary so I'll keep my critism to myself until I have been doing it longer and got a lot better at it.

Except for Lynn Abrams, I don't like his YouTube vids because he is too full of himself and should take the freemason ring off already so I can concentate on the honing lesson.

Talking of lessons, I have some wisdom to impart already.

I was honing today, the Gold dollar actually

Tip 1) I don't think I need to set the bevel on my razors every time I hone them.

I got the GD pretty sharp and then decided to remove the sharpy that I had been clumsy with. I had left the WD40 in the garage ( I was in my Workshop) but did have some brake cleaner to hand.

Tip 2) don't use brake cleaner on a blade unless you want the etching to go.

Tip 3) brake cleaner took the Gold Dollar print off the blade.

Tip 4) Now my blade doesn't say Gold Dollar, I don't have a Gold Dollar anymore.

tip 5) my razor hones much easier now it's not a Gold Dollar anymore.

Tip 8) Don't dry shave a cheek to see how sharp it is.

Tip 9) make sure all the brake cleaner is off the blade befor you try to dry shave your cheek.

Tip 10) freakin frog, brake cleaner hurts!

By the way, no Arks yet.

Well bear in mind that your mileage may vary due only in part to the fact that I cannot accurately define these stones. I have Just worked out a process with what I have, and even if I could you would likely not have one exactly the same even if you had a similar stone. This is the bad thing / good thing about natural stones. Even though you can get a better handle on them than I have there is always a certain amount of uncertainty but that's part of the cool part. It's like cooking over a wood fire instead of a gas grill or even more defined, like cooking over logs instead of charcoal. The main thing I'm getting at with this method is just the method of having stones with varying grit ranges and varying finishes on the different sides of those stones. It's an adventure. Ain't it great?!?!

Originally Posted by PaulFLUS

...Now I know someone is going to fuss at me or tell me (and you vicariously) that I am doing it wrong or have some better way since that is what usually happens... Again, before I get fussed at, I'm NOT saying not to. Lord knows I don't want to ruffle any feathers...

After reading back over this it occurs to me that this came out a little...what's the word?...smart a$$ maybe? That was not my intention. In fact I fully expected a lot of feedback and the LACK of it made me read back over my comments. I should state for the record that this part was really more referring to the fact that I know this way is a little unconventional as far as what is accepted rite and observance here. I was prepared for rebuttal to the effect of, "that stone is not right for razors," or "that is too many laps," or "that backward stroke you're using too much," or "You should be looking at the stria," or SOMETHING.

What made me try this was thinking about the way we think of accepted practice here and how differently what I remember seeing from my dad (who owned a sharpening business) and the old barbers was. It started as an exercise...an experiment I guess and I was actually surprised myself at how good the results were. It was a sharing moment that I expected rebuttal to and the fact that I didn't get any makes me fear I have come across like a know it all who doesn't want to hear it. Let me assure everyone that I KNOW I don't know it all. Maybe I got a case of the a$$ for a moment but I never intended to ward off critique.
If anyone feels that way I guess I can't undo it but know that's not what I really meant.

Originally Posted by PaulFLUS

After reading back over this it occurs to me that this came out a little...what's the word?...smart a$$ maybe? That was not my intention. In fact I fully expected a lot of feedback and the LACK of it made me read back over my comments. I should state for the record that this part was really more referring to the fact that I know this way is a little unconventional as far as what is accepted rite and observance here. I was prepared for rebuttal to the effect of, "that stone is not right for razors," or "that is too many laps," or "that backward stroke you're using too much," or "You should be looking at the stria," or SOMETHING.

What made me try this was thinking about the way we think of accepted practice here and how differently what I remember seeing from my dad (who owned a sharpening business) and the old barbers was. It started as an exercise...an experiment I guess and I was actually surprised myself at how good the results were. It was a sharing moment that I expected rebuttal to and the fact that I didn't get any makes me fear I have come across like a know it all who doesn't want to hear it. Let me assure everyone that I KNOW I don't know it all. Maybe I got a case of the a$$ for a moment but I never intended to ward off critique.
If anyone feels that way I guess I can't undo it but know that's not what I really meant.

I wouldn't give it a second thought Paul.

As Aaron say's in his signature "There's many roads to sharp".

If what you're doing works well for you I am very grateful for the advice based on your success.

I am grateful for any advice I get from any member/mentor with experience of Arks and just about everybody that owns an Ark has plenty to teach me considering that I don't even have one yet.

Originally Posted by STF

Except for Lynn Abrams, I don't like his YouTube vids because he is too full of himself and should take the freemason ring off already so I can concentate on the honing lesson.

Talking of lessons, I have some wisdom to impart already.

I'm not a mason either, but I still find much good advice in Lynn's videos. It's a bit sad that denigrating him is tolerated, when he was the man who re-introduced all of us, whether we know it or not, to straight razors in the modern age. There is room, I suggest, for all of us to learn from any knowledgeable source, whatever the petty squabbles about forum ownership. I've survived twenty years of all that, and I'm still willing to learn from anyone who can teach me something. It's not a bad attitude to take.

Originally Posted by drmoss_ca

I'm not a mason either, but I still find much good advice in Lynn's videos. It's a bit sad that denigrating him is tolerated, when he was the man who re-introduced all of us, whether we know it or not, to straight razors in the modern age. There is room, I suggest, for all of us to learn from any knowledgeable source, whatever the petty squabbles about forum ownership. I've survived twenty years of all that, and I'm still willing to learn from anyone who can teach me something. It's not a bad attitude to take.

I completely agree, I hope that I made it clear that I wanted to watch and learn from Lynn.

My comment was that in my opinion he has a high opinion of himself and wants us all to notice the freemasons ring.

I have no doubt he knows his stuff and has a lot to teach me, it's just my personal opinion. Didn't want to upset anyone.

I wasn't around for the domain troubles and haven't been told too much about it.

I will also be happy to learn form anyone that knows more than me about honing, which is almost everyone actually.

I am a bit careful who I admit to watching though (lesson learned).

WooHoo

I've got a Translucdent Ark now!

I have a quick question if I may.

I am dressing my trans to 600 one side as a reasonable staring point and leaving the other.

I spent 5 minutes with 600 wet n dry on my lapping plate and although I can feel a difference in the two sides I wonder if 5 minutes is enough time and how I would know when I have achieved the 600 I am shooting for.

I have also rubbed a kitchen knife over the 600 side for 5 minutes or so, I say rub because it got blunter. Knife sharpening must be harder than it looks so I'll stick to my steel for my expensive chefs knives I think. How long do I need to rub knives over the smooth side and why would I need to anyway because if I wanted it really smooth, wouldn't I just dress it to a higher grit?

Should I rub knives over the untouched side?

Thanks for helping me to understand those basics, I have had loads of great advice about honing on it, probably need to understand when it's ready to hone now.

I have spent 30 mins on a shave ready razor and it might have felt a bit nicer but only just so it might have been wishful thinking. I can't help but think that its supposed to be much nicer or why bother with the expense and work?