Thread: Took a gamble on Thury

Well, after some exhaustive digging this is probably not a Thury.
It behaves and creates fantastic edges on par with excellent Thury examples I have had and still own.
Under more magnification it is not the same compostion although similar.
It is most likely from 1893-94 prior to AHC being bought and moved to Olean N.Y
First mention I have found of Olean is 1891.
Minneapolis is mentioned from 1892-94.
The hone specifically mentioned in 1893,
Right side of page, so this was sourced in the U.S somewhere.
If this stone exists in the U.S why was it ever discontinued as the performance is stellar.
Had one of the best shaves in near 20 years with a straight from an edge from this hone.

https://www.google.ca/books/edition/...sec=frontcover

A little further into this thing and more testing.
Composition is very close to Thury.
Stone absorbs water at first but keeps it for a decent amount of time like a medium jnat. Thury's dont absorb really.
Most slates don't really absorb anything.
After some thought I was thinking it could be a man made from Thury dust. Only examples I have seen have been much darker in color and JGES only started this in1943 or so. This is from 1893.
There is what looks like a manganese line that encompasses one end. Under magnification it is black and not a void at all.
This indicates a natural stone.
The elements look natural as well. Most synthetics have a "blocky" looking ingredients from grinding prior to forming, this doesn't.
Direct comparison to my B/G Thury (an excellent example IMO) with my most consistant razor acrosss any medium on which to hone, this hone improves the edge (water only testing) from the Thury. Not by alot but certainly noticable.
It is a quandry for sure.
I only know of one Geologist type guy in my area but hopefully can get some type of answer from him - eventually.
I have reached out to Sebastian (Doorsh)for some insight as it is beyond my ability and expertise to conclude what type of stone this is and if it is even natural. I believe it is but...what is it?

Will add some photos if anyone cares.
First two are B/G Thury, these are bout 80x actual mag.





Next new stone,





Manganese type line,

If Thuringian then I wonder why the manufacturer was lying, Only waterhone produced in America.
Any thoughts?

Originally Posted by alex1921

If Thuringian then I wonder why the manufacturer was lying, Only waterhone produced in America.
Any thoughts?

It must not be a Thury is my guess. It looks like one and performs like one. I have never seen a Thury with a manganese type line but maybe Doorsch or Hatzicho have. I don't know.
If it were made from dust then where did all the dust come from if its from the U.S?
If it is mined in the U.S, what the hell is it and why aren't there tons of these out there?
The fact that it is slightly porous is odd for a slate.
It really doesn't look man made with the banding and Manganese type line.
Its reasonably hard and comparable to my B/G. Does not auto slurry or have a slime feeling like some lighter color Thury's do but smooth in use like the Thury.
Is there something I could look for in the slurry that would help?
I read on B&B Ian (sliceoflife) mentions slurry of synthetic vs natural but regards to Coti's I think.
Its just puzzling. If it didn't perform so damn well I wouldn't really care but it does.

Well these discoloration in Thuringians normally can have two reasons. In a lot of yellow-green hones which are from the combination layer to blue, there are blue spots in the yg stone matrix. Thuringians are mud hones where one layer in different color has settleds down to an existing layer. Sometines small bubbles from the layer below raise up into the upper layer and causes the color spots (or vise versa).
Another possibility are fossil plant or animal inclusions. Not sure in your case. Both of these color changes are not harmful in most cases (fossil inclusions sometimes though).
Doesn't seem to me that your color spot is a harmful iron inclusion. The iron inclusion could be identified during lapping, because the iron leaves a grey-silver trace on the surface during lapping.

Regards Peter

Originally Posted by hatzicho

Well these discoloration in Thuringians normally can have two reasons. In a lot of yellow-green hones which are from the combination layer to blue, there are blue spots in the yg stone matrix. Thuringians are mud hones where one layer in different color has settleds down to an existing layer. Sometines small bubbles from the layer below raise up into the upper layer and causes the color spots (or vise versa).
Another possibility are fossil plant or animal inclusions. Not sure in your case. Both of these color changes are not harmful in most cases (fossil inclusions sometimes though).
Doesn't seem to me that your color spot is a harmful iron inclusion. The iron inclusion could be identified during lapping, because the iron leaves a grey-silver trace on the surface during lapping.

Regards Peter

Thank you. It does seem natural in natural and not man made. The line has no ill effect in honing.
I will try an acid test for calcium carbonite but it is not a conclusive test IMO.
Is there something in the slurry that might be indicitive of natural vs synthetic?
It just seems odd for the company to claim it is an alternative to the expensive imports of Thuringians when itself seems so much like one. It does not look like any synthetic Thury I have seen - at least from photos.
If it is natural how can I identify the type of stone without any training in Geology. Trying to identify minerals may be difficult without very high power magnification.

Originally Posted by alex1921

If Thuringian then I wonder why the manufacturer was lying, Only waterhone produced in America.
Any thoughts?

Perhaps this is not the stones original box. I realise the stone and rubber fit in nice and snug. Maybe a previous owner just needed a box to store the stone and this particular box fit the job. This could explain away some of the mystery.

Just typing as I think

Originally Posted by Tathra11

Perhaps this is not the stones original box. I realise the stone and rubber fit in nice and snug. Maybe a previous owner just needed a box to store the stone and this particular box fit the job. This could explain away some of the mystery.

Just typing as I think

Well, I had never even thought of that.
Thing is, the box coresponds to the markings on the stone so it seems to belong there. The state and American Hone Company being stamped on it and it was in Minneapolis at the time.
Food for thought maybe but pretty sure its all original.

I just realized I did not add photos of the stamps,