Thread: New Taidea Proyan glass series... Anyone did anyone else try these?

Hi mrjin

Sorry for the late answer, but I 'm in the middle of a bathroom renovation project, so I'm quite busy at the moment. Glad to hear your stone arrived! Yes, at first the stone takes some water but not much. After a couple of splashes, or soaking for a minute the water should stay on top. It would be interesting to know how the edges of your new Shapton 30K compare to the Proyan? I would imagine the 30K edge is way sharper, but what about smoothness?

Peter.

Originally Posted by therapy

Hi mrjin

Sorry for the late answer, but I 'm in the middle of a bathroom renovation project, so I'm quite busy at the moment. Glad to hear your stone arrived! Yes, at first the stone takes some water but not much. After a couple of splashes, or soaking for a minute the water should stay on top. It would be interesting to know how the edges of your new Shapton 30K compare to the Proyan? I would imagine the 30K edge is way sharper, but what about smoothness?

Peter.

I've been quite busy in the recent a couple of days too. Haven't really got a chance to hone on the new stone yet. If the new one behaves more or less the same with the old one, I would say it will probably still need to go on a natural or strop on CrOx. Edge came off Shapton 30K can deliver super smooth shaves without stropping, and probably much less micro nicks than that came off naturals. I'll probably try it over the weekend.

Originally Posted by mrjin

I've been quite busy in the recent a couple of days too. Haven't really got a chance to hone on the new stone yet. If the new one behaves more or less the same with the old one, I would say it will probably still need to go on a natural or strop on CrOx. Edge came off Shapton 30K can deliver super smooth shaves without stropping, and probably much less micro nicks than that came off naturals. I'll probably try it over the weekend.

I did not notice any differences in the shaves between the old and updated 15K: Both deliver edges on par with the small thuringian finishers I have. The updated hones I got however seem to hold well and don't show any of the problems I had with the first set.

I am kind of surprised about your results with the Shapton 30K though... As experienced people on the forum stated in the past that few steels can handle the 30K edge, I allways thought it would be very easy to overdo and get a fragile/ harsh edge that won't hold for long. You must have done it right, congratulations!

Peter

Originally Posted by therapy

I did not notice any differences in the shaves between the old and updated 15K: Both deliver edges on par with the small thuringian finishers I have. The updated hones I got however seem to hold well and don't show any of the problems I had with the first set.

I am kind of surprised about your results with the Shapton 30K though... As experienced people on the forum stated in the past that few steels can handle the 30K edge, I allways thought it would be very easy to overdo and get a fragile/ harsh edge that won't hold for long. You must have done it right, congratulations!

Peter

Thanks, Peter. I've just tested the new stone and I have to say I'm super happy with it. So I brought a Bengall down to 4K, then up to 8K, then Naniwa Kagayaki 12K and finally the new Taidea 15K. I deliberately chose Kagayaki 12K here as I knew edge off it delivers buttery shaves but with lot of micro nicks on skin.

So I tried to shave just off the stone without any stropping at all, and the result was very good. The edge was very smooth, but slightly less keen than that off Shapton 30K as it's a little bit hard to shave my chin but still I managed to get very close shave. Alum block did pick up a few micro nicks, I feel it was slightly more than Shapton 30K or natural but not much. I would probably ignore such differences as it's very subjective. I general, I feels the new stone is a tad better than the old one as I'm happy with shaving with the edge direct off it. If new one does not craze, it would be a great stone.

Regarding Shapton 30K, it was a surprise to me too. I read those comments too and thus I never anticipated it would work, and assume it might be an expensive paperweight. I bought it just to get to the bottom of the rabbit hole.

After thinking it over again, I guess it's all about when to stop. I only did 10 to 15 laps each side which happened to work for me. 30K stone is so fine that after my last session, I did not see any swasfs at all. So it can remove very little material a time, which makes sense as we are trying to improve an edge at sub micron level. So if we keep on lapping, it eventually will get the edge too thin which is the situation you mentioned. But since it's super slow, we can stop at anywhere we want, right? It's the a trial and error process and it might be much easier to strop on CrOx or 0.1 micron diamond paste. Also my approach might also helped a lot. I would avoid creating a bur if I can and I stop to inspect the edge when finishing every a couple of strokes...

So now the only question left is how long can the edge hold. I've already done 5 shaves off it, it still looks the same. If I can get 20 out if it, I would call it a success.

Originally Posted by mrjin

Thanks, Peter. I've just tested the new stone and I have to say I'm super happy with it. So I brought a Bengall down to 4K, then up to 8K, then Naniwa Kagayaki 12K and finally the new Taidea 15K. I deliberately chose Kagayaki 12K here as I knew edge off it delivers buttery shaves but with lot of micro nicks on skin.

So I tried to shave just off the stone without any stropping at all, and the result was very good. The edge was very smooth, but slightly less keen than that off Shapton 30K as it's a little bit hard to shave my chin but still I managed to get very close shave. Alum block did pick up a few micro nicks, I feel it was slightly more than Shapton 30K or natural but not much. I would probably ignore such differences as it's very subjective. I general, I feels the new stone is a tad better than the old one as I'm happy with shaving with the edge direct off it. If new one does not craze, it would be a great stone.

Regarding Shapton 30K, it was a surprise to me too. I read those comments too and thus I never anticipated it would work, and assume it might be an expensive paperweight. I bought it just to get to the bottom of the rabbit hole.

After thinking it over again, I guess it's all about when to stop. I only did 10 to 15 laps each side which happened to work for me. 30K stone is so fine that after my last session, I did not see any swasfs at all. So it can remove very little material a time, which makes sense as we are trying to improve an edge at sub micron level. So if we keep on lapping, it eventually will get the edge too thin which is the situation you mentioned. But since it's super slow, we can stop at anywhere we want, right? It's the a trial and error process and it might be much easier to strop on CrOx or 0.1 micron diamond paste. Also my approach might also helped a lot. I would avoid creating a bur if I can and I stop to inspect the edge when finishing every a couple of strokes...

So now the only question left is how long can the edge hold. I've already done 5 shaves off it, it still looks the same. If I can get 20 out if it, I would call it a success.

The edges of the Proyan hold very well for me. I can easily get 20+ shaves before refreshing.

A small notice: I just saw on the Official Taidea webstore on Aliexpress that the price of the Proyan 15K went up from about 39€ that I paid a couple of months ago to 63€ now... Although to my mind the current price is still a steal for this hone, Taidea seems to be aware that the problems with their Proyan line are solved...

Originally Posted by therapy

A small notice: I just saw on the Official Taidea webstore on Aliexpress that the price of the Proyan 15K went up from about 39€ that I paid a couple of months ago to 63€ now... Although to my mind the current price is still a steal for this hone, Taidea seems to be aware that the problems with their Proyan line are solved...

Thanks for the updates.

I'm not sure if they really resolved the problems yet. I just noticed small round holes/pits on the new stone surface, which are around 0.3mm diameter. Initially I thought they were just swarfs but it turned out to be holes. Hopefully they were just bubbles during manufacturing and do not grow.

The new price is no longer a deal. It's higher than Naniwa 12Ks and significantly higher than Shapton Pro 12K. Proyan 15K is slightly finer than those, but given the uncertainty of the quality, I can hardly find a reason to buy them any more, especially there import taxes on top of it.

I don't know. If I am comparing them correctly the Sharpton Glass G7 series is the comparable stone and it is still a good bit more. The .85 micron (around 17k) is $109 at Sharpening Supplies. However, if their stones don't hold up then it is not a good investment. I'd rather pay twice as much for a stone that lasts 4 times as long. Plus, if it doesn't perform well then it is a fool's errand to begin with. So far my 15k does perform well but if it continues.to degrade then that may not last long. The jury is still out on that. I don't use it enough to know yet how it will fare.

Originally Posted by mrjin

Thanks for the updates.

I'm not sure if they really resolved the problems yet. I just noticed small round holes/pits on the new stone surface, which are around 0.3mm diameter. Initially I thought they were just swarfs but it turned out to be holes. Hopefully they were just bubbles during manufacturing and do not grow.

The new price is no longer a deal. It's higher than Naniwa 12Ks and significantly higher than Shapton Pro 12K. Proyan 15K is slightly finer than those, but given the uncertainty of the quality, I can hardly find a reason to buy them any more, especially there import taxes on top of it.

mrjin

I remember one of the stones in my first set had a couple of small holes in the beginning too. It were indeed small air bubbles that dissapeared after some lapping and they had no effect on the honing. The new stones seem a little more porous than the previous at first, but I am under the impression that they become harder and harder afer few lappings. I have had no problem whatsoever with the new set I received from Taidea. As a European, I don't think your comparison with the 12K nani or the Shapton Pro 12K is fair. The nani is a very good stone, but I think the 15K Proyan gives the better, more natural feeling skin-friendly edge. Here in Belgium, the thin 1cm version of the 12K without backup costs €79 an personally, I would not want to trade it to my 15K. I believe the Shapton 12K (Kuromaku) can be compared to a Shapton glass 16K. The 16K mentions a particle size of 0.92µ and costs about €140 over here. The Proyan mentions a particle size of 0.64µ, what comes close to your Shapton 30K or a Suehiro GK20K around 0.49/0.5µ. The 30K is €290 over here... The most important thing to me however is the performance of the 15K as I think it is one of the few synthetic finishers that can make people who look for a smoother, natural feeling finish happy.

Originally Posted by therapy

Hi mrjin

Sorry for the late answer, but I 'm in the middle of a bathroom renovation project, so I'm quite busy at the moment. Glad to hear your stone arrived! Yes, at first the stone takes some water but not much. After a couple of splashes, or soaking for a minute the water should stay on top. It would be interesting to know how the edges of your new Shapton 30K compare to the Proyan? I would imagine the 30K edge is way sharper, but what about smoothness?

Peter.

Hey Peter, just to give you another update on the Shapton 30K. So I had to refresh the edge off it after around 15 shaves, which was less than what I have expected. I only do preshave stropping on plain leather, so not too bad. I could see micro chips grew on the edge, and I managed to remove them after 10 strokes on Shapton Pro 12K. This time I only did 8 laps each side on the 30K, just curious to see whether I can get 20 out of it. So far I did not feel any difference with the sharpless, I guess I might be able to get it after only 5 laps.