Thread: The REAL holy grail of hones?

sorry for responding so late... been at the in-laws showing off our new little one.

I'll pm dwarven chef on knifeforums (he seems to be more of a regular poster there...) and see what the response is.

Just curious to know whether anyone has seen the chosera stones being sold by rasurpur and knows if they are the same as the cho cera stones being discussed here.
I've been interested in these stones for quite some time, but after one too many unanswered e-mails from certain sellers (who shall remain nameless) reputed to be able to get these particular stones I gave up.
Rasurpur describes the stones as new, not just new to them but newly available (or at least that's how I understood it.) They also say that the stones are designed to be used dry, and I've not seen that before in any discussion that I have read about these particular stones. Also, the stones seem much cheaper from Rasurpur at 110 Euro's for the 10k versus $269+ in the US , I've never known that to happen before in the EU, even with the crappy exchange rate and murmurings of global financial meltdown
Finally there is the issue of spelling Cho Cera versus chosera at Rasurpur.
So, can anyone clue me in?
Kind regards,
Alex

I'm not gonna make a call on this one for sure without talking to both vendors first (which I don't care enough to do). With that being said they look similar if not the same. EXCEPT that all the stones at rasurpur besides the 10k are shown with bases that the other site said Naniwa stopped doing. Also, rasurpur talks all about how they need no water... I found this at the other place " It is very important that the stones be soaked for 15 minutes before use, and after use, be kept away from heat and sunlight so that they dry evenly."

So one of them is wrong! I'm guessing it's rasurpur- it comes with a Nagura. Who on earth would use a Nagura without water? Or maybe I'm just uninformed here lol.

Originally Posted by xChris

I did some limited research too on this hone. Apparenetly, the grit breaks down as the hone is used, so you start out with a 10K but it gets finer as you go. Certainly interesting, and maybe I'll look into it again when I completely use (yeah, not likely) or sell one of my other hones.

Read the description of by Zeepk and you would think they use the same stones for their hones

Zeepk Straight Razor 'S Hone Stone Barber Knife - eBay (item 320308823500 end time Oct-14-08 15:28:22 PDT)

Originally Posted by Philadelph

I'm not gonna make a call on this one for sure without talking to both vendors first (which I don't care enough to do). With that being said they look similar if not the same. EXCEPT that all the stones at rasurpur besides the 10k are shown with bases that the other site said Naniwa stopped doing. Also, rasurpur talks all about how they need no water... I found this at the other place " It is very important that the stones be soaked for 15 minutes before use, and after use, be kept away from heat and sunlight so that they dry evenly."

So one of them is wrong! I'm guessing it's rasurpur- it comes with a Nagura. Who on earth would use a Nagura without water? Or maybe I'm just uninformed here lol.

I found this info on the TFWW site.

Originally Posted by Tools for Woodworking

At our request, the factory is packaging these stones without bases to that they will fit in any existing sharpening jig you use, and so that you can easily use the both sides and the edge of the stone. We also think the stone will soak more evenly, and, more importantly, dry better. It is very important that the stones be soaked for 15 minutes before use, and after use, be kept away from heat and sunlight so that they dry evenly. If they're not allowed to dry slowly, the stone may develop minor cracks in the surface. The stones come with Nagura stones - used to work up a slurry and for flattening.

I'm the importer of the Chosera and Superstones in the US. our primary market is woodworkers but we sell lots to razor folks and chefs. I happen to collect Rolls Razors which isn't exactly a straight razor or relavent to the discussion but sharp is sharp and that's important to all of us. We brought in the Superstones because we thought a stone that didn't need soaking, that was less expensive than a shapton and easier to maintain was a good idea. Also Naniwa stones attempt to feel like natural stones and I liked the feel of the stones. At the same time we got in samples of the Chosera line. I was blown away but I thought the stones were too expensive to really be worth importing. But I got enough requests so we brought them in. the 10K stone is the finest finishing stone I have ever used and it also cuts fast enough so it can do more than just put on a little polish. You do have to soak them enough, and they can be finicky but I am just blown away (I use chosera's at home and superstones at work).

But as the retailer everything I say is pretty worthless. Really - if you aren't naturally supicious of a retailer who like his own product then I have a bridge to sell you.

Therefore the real questions are - Is the right stone for me given the cost and performance? and what happens if I get it and I don't like it.

ANY responsible dealer of anything will take a return back if you don't like something. And with a stone the only way to tell if you like it is use it. So my advice to anyone is make sure your dealer will take the stone back even if it's a little used. and if you really have yen for something at this level try it out. It's not a beginner stone. I would never recommend a chosera stone as the first set of stones someone gets- they won't appreciate it. But as an advanced stone at least in my highly biased view it can't be beat.

Joel

Welcome, Joel. I've ordered several things from you and really enjoy drooling over your catalog.

Many of us use natural finishing stones in the 10k range give or take a few thousands; Coticules and Thuringians to name a few.

A hot stone for an increasing number of us (myself included) is the 16K Shapton Ceramic on Glass for about $100. That stone gives us edges keener than most of us would ever want them, without sacrificing shaving comfort (not sharp for the sake of simply being sharp).

Me lead in is not intended to preemptively shoot down the Chosera 10k. I'm a rabid honing stone fan of all types. Can you explain to us how a 10K rated stone may meet or even exceed performance of a Shapton 16K for example? Does the Chosera 10K slurry start at 10K and break down during the honing process to a finer grit? And if so, any ideas of where it ends up?

Your promise of customer service is very refreshing and great to hear as well. Other vendors with direct ties to SRP have given us such great service that we're lucky to have them around. We appreciate that type of thing and tend to be very loyal!

Chris L

Originally Posted by Chris L

Welcome, Joel. I've ordered several things from you and really enjoy drooling over your catalog.

Many of us use natural finishing stones in the 10k range give or take a few thousands; Coticules and Thuringians to name a few.

A hot stone for an increasing number of us (myself included) is the 16K Shapton Ceramic on Glass for about $100. That stone gives us edges keener than most of us would ever want them, without sacrificing shaving comfort (not sharp for the sake of simply being sharp).

Me lead in is not intended to preemptively shoot down the Chosera 10k. I'm a rabid honing stone fan of all types. Can you explain to us how a 10K rated stone may meet or even exceed performance of a Shapton 16K for example? Does the Chosera 10K slurry start at 10K and break down during the honing process to a finer grit? And if so, any ideas of where it ends up?

Your promise of customer service is very refreshing and great to hear as well. Other vendors with direct ties to SRP have given us such great service that we're lucky to have them around. We appreciate that type of thing and tend to be very loyal!

Chris L

Chris,
I haven't used the shapton 16K stone but people I respect prefer the 10K Chosera stone. How a stone behaves has much more to do with the hardness and sharpness of the abrasive, how it breaks down, and how the binder works than the nominal grit. Not to mention the amount of abrasive in the stone compared to the binder. The CHosera stone is a very high tech stone with the abrasive suspended in a way to seperate it and keep the grains of abrasive indiviudally surrouned with a magnesia binder.

To me part of the appeal of Naniwa stones is not just the speed and sharpening and the quality of the edge but the feel of the stone. I love the feel of the choseras - it's fun to use. Also I like a softer stone because it is easier to maintain. It's a personal thing and the Choseras are not for everyone just as any stone isn't automatically for everyone.

Ps I have used lots of shaptons - just not the 16K

Thanks, Joel. Knowing my HAD (Hone Acquisition Disorder), I see this stone at some point in my future; especially knowing your offer that if it just doesn't seem to work for me/others, you'd take it back. As you can see, we've talked about the Chosera a bit. Our ultimate test of such a stone (the 10k) rather than cutting food or wood is shaving comfortably.

I'm sure you'll hear more from us.

Chris L

Thanks for posting Joel! My intent by starting this thread wasn't to say the stone was or wasn't as good as I had heard, but really to see if anyone had in fact used it for straights. I do appreciate your input! I'm not really one to get into real stone cravings (HAD) and try a ton of honing options as we know it can be expensive, but this sounded like a finishing stone one might never want to replace. Hopefully someone will eventually test it out here and we can see the response. Care to trade for some nice shave ready straights with custom scales?