Thread: Escher Colors

With eschers, is it a problem if you use a slurry stone that is a different color than the hone? e.g., using a dark grey slurry stone on a yellow-green hone? Or are the grits so similar that there is not problem mixing?

Also, while Tim initiated this thread in early 2009 suggesting a study to determine different honing qualities of the various colors, it doesn't seem that any results were ever posted to the thread.

I have seen several suggest that the differences are "subtle" ... meaning what? Darker is more abrasive/faster, or yellow/green is smoother, etc.?

Any help would be appreciated as I am looking at a purchase.

THANKS !!!

I've got examples of dark blue, blue/green, yellow/green and light green. IME they go from fast to slow in reverse the order I've listed them in. The smoothness is so close in all of mine that I don't know that I could differentiate between them. It would be really difficult to rate them but in the old Pike catalog the yellow/green was the most expensive by far in 1905. Maybe more abrasive per square inch but one as fine as the other ? I don't know what makes the difference where the rubber meets the road. The differences are subtle.

Any thoughts on mixing slurry stone and hone colors ... if the difference wasn't much, I wouldn't worry, but the difference is pretty noticable between the two stones, and I was thinking the grits may be different, and could create mixed results.

Thanks again, Jimmy!

Well I'm with you on being uncomfortable with mixing the slurry color to color but I don't think it would hurt anything. When you come right down to it the abrasive is still quartz. Even with coticules slurry stones are more often than not from a different vein rather than a piece of the larger stone but the abrasive is still garnet. Another possibility is to get a credit card sized diamond plate 325 grit from DMT. They are cheap and work well IME for raising slurry and handy if you've got a pocket knife.

Thanks a ton ... makes good sense. You guys are such great resources, and much appreciated. I like the idea of the diamond plate ... never thought of that to bring up a slurry, but that would certainly eliminate the cross-grit contamination concern.

Good morning ,Everyone!

What are the main differences with the Escher colors? I have a Dark Blue with slurry in the box at home and I love the hone, it's really cool, puts on a good edge, etc. Is the color differences just on the speed of the hone or does the smoothness of the edge have a factor also?

My Dark Blue Escher is considered lowest on the price scale when you look at the old price listing for Escher hones. I am wondering how big of an improvement the lighter colored ones are since they were more costly than the Dark Blue.

Either way it's awesome!

EDIT: I just read Jimmy's post and it pretty much answers what I asked. Sorry!

Hi guys,
I am in no way an Escher connoisseur nor know anything about it, but I spent an hour or so with Richard this weekend (thank you kindly Richard) who kindly provided me with some history behind some of what he knows about Eschers.

Anyways, being as it may and given the indisputable fact that color is a direct reflection of the physical and chemical properties of "materials" (in this case garnets), the topic got me curious to point that I started to do some "quick & dirty" research about the properties of garnets.

Here's the scoop:

Garnets are found in many colors including red, orange, yellow, green, blue, purple, brown, black, pink and colorless...now, we do see these color combinations within the Echers, don't we ??

Caveat in describing color: When we discuss color, we have to be careful about defining what kind of light the observations are made. It changes color from blue-green in the daylight to purple in incadescent light, as a result of the relatively high amounts of vanadium (~1 wt.% V2O3). Other varieties of color-changing garnets also exist...e.g., in daylight, their color ranges from shades of green, beige, brown, gray, and blue, but in incandescent light, they appear a reddish or purplish/pink color.

Getting back to the garnet story:

Chemical structure and color chart:
Garnets are nesosilicates having the general formula X3Y2(SiO4)3. The X site is usually occupied by divalent cations (Ca2+, Mg2+, Fe2+) and the Y site by trivalent cations (Al3+, Fe3+, Cr3+) in an octahedral/tetrahedral framework with [SiO4]4− occupying the tetrahedra. As I understand it, there are several types of garnets with different color properties (below):

• Almandine: Fe3Al2(SiO4)3 - Red color
• Pyrope: Mg3Al2(SiO4)3- deep red to almost black
• Spessartine: Mn3Al2(SiO4)3 - orange/yellow
• Andradite: Ca3Fe2(SiO4)3- red, yellow, brown, green or black
• Grossular: Ca3Al2(SiO4)3 - green, cinnamon brown, red, and yellow
• Uvarovite: Ca3Cr2(SiO4)3- bright green

Just a tidbit...This may explain the rich source of different garnets (and their color variation) in the hot Eschers everyone is so hot to talk about. So, if you have a Y/G, you may have a stone with any combination of Ca3Fe2(SiO4)3 , Mn3Al2(SiO4)3 , Ca3Al2(SiO4)3 , or Ca3Cr2(SiO4)3.

Anyone up for analyzing the mineral contents on these stones? better yet, does anyone want to chip off some part of their $$ stones and donate them for such an analysis ?

Questions I have are:

1. Do any form of garnet have a temporal (age) component to them? i.e., is any one older/younger (in millions of years) to another

2. Does this temporal component (if valid), be more valuable compared to another?

Mind you, this is not coming from an expert in stones or an inorganic chemist.

Hi Robert. Eschers are not composed of garnets. Coticules are. The abrasive in Eschers are quartz in a chalk binder. Hence the soft quality of the stone and why it is so good for razors. Not too soft as it is eons old but that is what they are.

Oooopppsss...there you go. Shows you how much I know about these things...doesn't it?

I guess the principle would be the same...back to the drawing board then for me...Quartz!! Hmmm...who in my circle knows about the chemistry of quartz ?

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

Hi Robert. Eschers are not composed of garnets. Coticules are. The abrasive in Eschers are quartz in a chalk binder. Hence the soft quality of the stone and why it is so good for razors. Not too soft as it is eons old but that is what they are.

Originally Posted by BladeRunner001

Oooopppsss...there you go. Shows you how much I know about these things...doesn't it?

I guess the principle would be the same...back to the drawing board then for me...Quartz!! Hmmm...who in my circle knows about the chemistry of quartz ?

Howard from The Perfect Edge is a geologist and another forum member Alex ( A_S) ought to be if he ain't. For that kind of info they might be able to shed some light if you shoot one or both a PM. Give Howard a call. His phone # is on his website and he is a pleasure to talk hones and honing with. A_S is across the pond so the PM will have to do.