Thread: Chinese 12k question (s)

Regarding rotten stone, please direct your attention to the Bill Ellis video. He seems to be a proponent of its use on the Norton stones, particularly the Norton 4K and 8K. It is definitely more of a polishing agent as opposed to being famous for its abrasion and/or cutting ability. Those of us who have his video know that Bill has his own honing philosophy and he swears by it. We also know that he must live dead up against a busy street...!!!

As far as limestone is concerned, my guess is that the age of the limestone has something to do with the decaying process and also moisture content over time will do it to it. If you are familiar with pulverizers, gyrodisk rock crushers, hammermills and ball mills, you will easily understand how limestone can become rottenstone dust.

I guess we've beaten this one to death, huh??!!! JERRY______

Rottenstone is made from weathered limestone mixed with a silica bearing material - diatomaceous earth (diatoms were microscopic organisms - when they died the minite silica shell was left). It is finer than pumice and used after it in woodworking. It is sometimes - confusingly - referred to as tripoli, which is lighter in colour and much finer than rottenstone and almost pure silicon whith traces of quartz. Both are pulverised into powder. I used to make wetplate glass negatives, and both tripoli and rottenstone were used to polish the glass plates. You can find it in shops that cater for fine woodworkers, and it is used a lot by violin makers.

Regards,
Neil

Originally Posted by mrsell63

Regarding rotten stone, please direct your attention to the Bill Ellis video. He seems to be a proponent of its use on the Norton stones, particularly the Norton 4K and 8K.

I've never tried anything like that on any stone but sort of related, I remember Chris-L posting something where he was experimenting with using dried slurry that he had harvested on one stone or another. I think he also saved the residue out of the kerf when he was cutting up the Chinese 12ks to make the slurry stones he was selling.

I used to use a slurry, but not anymore. I just use the 1K until the visible nicks are gone and 4K until the bevel is properly formed. Then just small pyramids on the 4 & 8 and then a finishing hone or straight to chrome ox. No slurry is necessary.

Just my $.02 this morning,

I use a Chinese 12k on every razor I hone. It is the finest grit hone I own. I'm kind of a hone minimalist in that I own one hone for each process in my progression. No multiple stones that do the same thing. Anyway, I love my 12k. It must be a good one. It is the 2" model. I get great edges every time. It isn't quick, but I wouldn't say it takes forever to finish a razor on it. Recently I started going from 12k to chrome ox and I like that even better, but before that the 12k was the final step and people loved the edges it got (when I would sell razors or hone someone's).

I always use mine dry now. I find it gets better edges that way. Wet would cut slightly faster but it wasn't worth it for me. I lap it on a DMT D8C. The first lapping took a while but as long as you use no excessive force, the DMT was fine. Now it is just a few laps as a refresher after every razor to KEEP it flat.

I have really felt no need to 'upgrade' to a 'better' finisher. I believe that it can yield edges as comfortable as most hones as long as you practice with it. I do not find it to be inconsistent either. After going to chrome ox, there is no need for anything else (besides stropping) IMO.

To those of you who use both the coticule and the 12K, do you notice any major improvement in using the 12K after the coti?

One poster said the edge off the 12K wasn't better per se, just different than the edge off the coti. Is that the general consensus?

I have several cotis and have always been pleased with the edges I get. While I do eventually want a thuringian(sp), I am just curious if it is worth is to get the 12K.

I should point out that my honing progression goes DMT1.2K, BBW, coti, so it's not like I would be using it after a Norton or anything, it would most always be following the coti.

Originally Posted by JCitron

To those of you who use both the coticule and the 12K, do you notice any major improvement in using the 12K after the coti?

One poster said the edge off the 12K wasn't better per se, just different than the edge off the coti. Is that the general consensus?

I have several cotis and have always been pleased with the edges I get. While I do eventually want a thuringian(sp), I am just curious if it is worth is to get the 12K.

I should point out that my honing progression goes DMT1.2K, BBW, coti, so it's not like I would be using it after a Norton or anything, it would most always be following the coti.

"Better" is subjective. We're talking some personal preference here. I've found that the edge off the chinese 12k is sharper than off the coticule, and I like it better. Just my personal preference.

Dammit.

After reading this, i am starting to regret selling my chinese 12k and buying a naniwa 12k.

Originally Posted by Slartibartfast

Dammit.

After reading this, i am starting to regret selling my chinese 12k and buying a naniwa 12k.

Why would you regret it? Were you getting good results with the chinese 12k

I don't understand Slartibartfast? I've not tried the naniwa 12k, but it gets such rave reviews, I can't imagine anyone would find the chinese 12k any (if at all) better? I'm sure the naniwa is faster, at least. I wouldn't regret that decision at all. I'm considering a naniwa 12k at some point myself, but then again I have HAD pretty bad.

Did you get better results with the chinese 12k or something?