Thread: Shapton GS 16k as a finish

Maybe that's it. The 16K isn't narrow.

I just "dumbed down" my Solingen Bismark to 16K, and didn't strop. I put a piece of tape on the spine (I was considering doing this anyway, since my many failed experiments thinned out the spine considerably over the years) and established a new bevel on the 4k glass stone. Then proceeded to the 8k, and 16k. After I felt a good finish on the 16k, I went back and did 5 strokes on the 8k, and back to the 16k for 10, and finished with 5 strokes with the blade in a different position to really "clean it up". Again, I didn't strop.

The feel from this shave reminded me of my first (of many) straight shaves that I got from an old Italian barber named Tony when I was 17 - right before my girlfriend's senoir prom. Tony had been cutting my hair since I was a boy. They guy was in his late 60's at the time, had a wondering eye, and he would stick out his tongue while stropping. His breathing was heavy and he took a few minutes getting himself into position. I was always scared he was going to kill me! It was a great shave though!

Anyway, the blade felt just like that - it was still quite smooth with the correct stretching of the skin. I could hear the blade cutting the hairs on my face, and there was only a slight "scraping" feeling on the skin, but not enough to irritate or cause discomfort. There was no hanging up on the blade at all. I was actually quite impressed. I did 2 passes, the first WTG and then ATG. The blade held up the entire time, with no touching up necessary.

I personally think it is a matter of stretching that skin enough. I did some interesting HBTHTSMCANA (hand-behind-the head-to-stretch-my-cheek-and-neck-area) It makes all the difference. When I don't stretch enough, I get that ripping feeling.

Hope this helped!

Great story...Tony and all.

Originally Posted by DwarvenChef

I'm reasonably sure it's not a bad bevel, it shaved alot better before I took it to the 16k. The shave I get off the 16k was extreamly grabby and would get stuck alot. Looking at the edge with a 30x look showed nothing that would lead me to believe I had a wire edge.

After the last shave atemtp I did 10 passes on the coti and the shave was exactly as I expected, super smooth and easy glide over the skin. So I have come to believe I'm just not cut out for the 16k GS.

Pressure was a problem for me a couple years ago as well I have really come to love the natural hones as they also cured me of pressure issues. I think as much from their size and the fact that I use them in my palm, easier to feel excess pressure.

After moving to narrower hones I have noticed a step up on my edges. I can get them up well enough to shave with, but after I started working on the hand helds I really loved the edge I get.

The 16k Shapton Glass Stone is a great stone and has a remarkable finish. I may just move it over to my kitchen knife stones and use it for my more wicked sharp knives, only time will tell

Try using a lower than your normal shaving angle (spine closer to your face) and let us know if that makes a difference.

Originally Posted by smythe

Try using a lower than your normal shaving angle (spine closer to your face) and let us know if that makes a difference.

I'll get another razor out (packed the rest already ) and give that a try, I did try different angles but maybe not as much as I could have.

Mmmm I could always get one from an antique to test one see how long I survive after that haha...

I haven't commented in this thread because I have very limited experience with a 16k. I had one that I got a good deal on but I let it go in a trade without using it more then a couple of times. The limited use I did get out of it was impressive to me. I traded it because I have the set of Shapton professionals including the 15 and 30k so the gs 16 was sort of redundant if I wasn't going to go for more glass stones.

That said, this thread has me thinking that the results some of the guys are feeling in shaving off of the 16k might be related to skin sensitivity rather than the performance of the 16k. Some of you may remember a forum member, The Topher, who isn't around anymore. He lived near me and was very helpful in showing me what he knew about honing and it was considerable.

He had a Shapton pro 15k and I had seen him get edges super sharp with it. Time passed and he bought a natural coticule from Howard. His first and last coticule. He told me that he didn't like the edge that he got off of it. He said that it was sharp enough to get a good shave but not as "scary sharp" (his words) as he preferred.

So I bought this big beautiful 8x3 off of him and it is the best coticule I have out of over a dozen. By best I am saying that it out performs all of my others in speed while leaving the edge comfortably smooth. More time passes and the glass stones become the rage. Chris (The Topher) decides to sell his 15k pro to me and apply the funds to a new 16k.

So I get the pro and he gets the glass stone. He liked it btw but said that he didn't see a significant difference in results between one and the other. Meanwhile, at the time my routine was honing bunches of ebay razors with the Norton 4/8 and finishing on the 15k pro, or the coticule with water, or a blue/green Escher.

What I found for me was that I didn't like the "scary sharp" edge that I could get from the 15k as much as I preferred the smoother edge I was getting from the coticule or the smoother and sharper edge I was getting from the blue/green Escher. (sharper than the coticule, not sharper than the 15k)

So just as those of us who come from a DE background and have experimented with the various blades available have found that YMMV applies to those edges I think the same goes for straights. For my particular beard and skin the naturals seem preferable for smoothness and comfort.

If I am honing with the Shapton pros a bit of chrom ox or the 0.5 diamond spray (not paste) on the SRD felt hanging strop will smooth out the edge some. I don't need that coming off of my naturals to smooth it out. So that is my experience, as with most of the shave related stuff YMMV.

+1n with Jimmy. I've heard people not liking the Coticule. This I understand because it is a natural hone, and you can have variances from hone to hone. Some are better than others. This is the first I'm hearing of anyone not liking the Shapton 16k. I've always heard good things about it. Since they're synthetic, there should be consistency, right. I have one, but have not used it enough to impart any ground breaking results. I have had good and bad with it. Normally, if I have blade that just won't do it for me. 9x out of 10, I have to reset the bevel. You said you looked under a 30x loupe. I use a ten, and can tell if the bevel has to be reset. I'm not sure how it would look under the 30x, but that's what I would do.

Originally Posted by 2Sharp

If the 16K doesn't do it for you then the bevel isn't set. I have went back to the lower grits many times on stubborn razors. I always use CrO to smooth the edge after the finishing hone. The CrO smooths the edge off of the 30K even though they are approximately the same grit.

bj

+1 on this statement. I, too, have been through this situation. I have learned to never continue on to the next finer stone until I am absolutely sure the razor's edge (I've heard this before!) and bevel are ready.

This has been a tough one to get. for me!

Even though I've been off the boards the passed few months, I've still been honing like crazy.

I agree with the OP on the *relatively* rough shave coming off of the 16k Shapton (it's not terrible.. in fact, it's pretty good, really, but it can get better). Using chrome ox afterward, or even some diamond paste, makes the shave much better, but so far the very best results i've gotten after the 16k were obtained by: 16k to 50 laps on webbed linen to 50 laps on latigo strop. This gets me darn near as close in sharpness and comfort as finishing on my shapton 30k.

The more I use my webbed linen/latigo combo strop, the more I'm convinced it's the cure to everything including global warming.

The webbed linen (fabric?) seems to have a similar sharpening effect (but slower) as chrome ox, but leaves an even smoother edge than the chrome ox. Then the extra draw of the latigo smoothes it all out even more.

Kinda off topic, but just to really put that combo strop to the test, I took one blade fresh from the Shapton 8k stone to the web for 100 laps, then to the latigo for another hundred. The shave was quite satisfactory.

IMO, every new guy (or maybe just "every guy") should have a webbed linen strop. It *really* helps to make up for some honing short comings.

Originally Posted by FloorPizza

IMO, every new guy (or maybe just "every guy") should have a webbed linen strop. It *really* helps to make up for some honing short comings.

It's kind of funny, I was just rambling on my blog if stropping was necessary in a 30K world..... precisely because stropping made up for inconsistencies mainly produced by the gap in hone technology until recently...