Thread: Help with Naniwa set up

Wow, a bit more in-depth answer than I thought I'd get, but good to know.

Anyone know what the micron rating of the Naniwa 12k k is (as compared to the .92 of the Shapton 16)?

I'll look and see if I can find an official JIS rating. I doubt it though. 99.9999% of people don't need sub micron sandpaper lol. Extrapolating the trends they look to be quite similar.

Khaos,

I think you have to decide how you will use either stone. I'm thinking this:

The 3K can still be used to touch up an edge without removing as much metal as dropping down to the 1K.

After using the 1K though, the 5K will remove less metal than the 3K in a progression to 8K.

So, if you want to use it as a touch up, the 3K might be better, but if you wanted to get to 8K faster, the 5K might be better.

I'm also still considering the Shapton 1k 4k 8k which would be a lot easier. I just have to think about the Nani's though. And it turns out that a Nani 5k is actually close in micron size to a Shapton 8k and I think a Norton 8k. I don't have the chart on my laptop but its on SRP somewhere. which makes life even harder. Basically people have found (and the micron sizes of the different grits support it) that pyramiding nani 3k/5k is like a norton 4k/8k. Sigh.

Originally Posted by khaos

I'm also still considering the Shapton 1k 4k 8k which would be a lot easier. I just have to think about the Nani's though. And it turns out that a Nani 5k is actually close in micron size to a Shapton 8k and I think a Norton 8k. I don't have the chart on my laptop but its on SRP somewhere. which makes life even harder. Basically people have found (and the micron sizes of the different grits support it) that pyramiding nani 3k/5k is like a norton 4k/8k. Sigh.

Karl, at first glance that is the impression I got too but not quite. First of all if Smokintbird's grit chart is accurate the Shapton pro and glass are the same in microns as the Naniwa and that puts a Naniwa 3/5 in the same ballpark as a Norton 4/8 but not exactly. IOW if you look at the microns on the right in the chart rather than where the stones are listed in the text the grits are close but not naniwa 3k = norton 4k.

IMO in honing it appears to be better to do the pyramid with a 2 or a 3k and a 5k if you're using the Japanese hones for the same result, or close to it if you are using the Nortons.

When I first got the Shapton pros I did pyramids with the 5/8 and it seemed like I wasn't getting anywhere. I eventually was able to get some results but it took a lot of time. I found myself going to the Norton 4/8 most of the time and the Shap pro 15 for icing on the cake.

Yesterday my Naniwas arrived and I lapped a 1k and set a bevel then a 3/5k and did 1 aggressive and 1 conservative pyramid and shaved. I got the same shave as I would have if I had used the Norton 4/8.

I could have done the same thing with my Shapton pros using a 2/5 (they don't make a 3k) but I sent all of my Shapton pros to a friend who wanted to try them out and I won't have them back for a week or two. I will give it a go with the 2/5 when I get them back but I think I like the Naniwa better.

While it may be jumping the gun to recommend the Naniwa set after honing 1 razor I have to say that I love the feel of these stones. As I have read they have a really nice feel when the blade is on the hone and they seem to be very efficient cutters.

On the one HC blade, a vintage 8/8 Henckles they didn't load up and cut fast. The thing is I really liked the feel. I will take that same razor today and give it one more conservative pyramid.

Then I will go to the 8k and do some polishing and shave again. I will do the 10 and 12k tomorrow and shave with it yet again and I will also do the 3/5 pyramids on a few others. I think I am on to something here but it requires further testing.

Anyway, it seems like the Naniwas may have shot the Shaptons out of the saddle for me and the Nortons too.

Originally Posted by rayman

I have a set of Naniwas 1k, 3k, 5k, 8k, 12k and a 16k Shapton. I noticed that using the 5/8k combination to do a pyramid seemed to take a little longer than I thought it should, and couldn't figure out why, until I read a grit chart posted by someone here on this thread that indicated that the Japanese stones are rated different. The 3k is closer to a 5k and the 5k is closer to an 8k. I then tried a pyramid with the 3/5k combination and it produced the results I was previously getting from a norton 4/8k but much smoother. I think if you can only get one stone it might be the 3k and you can finish with your barber hone. It might take longer, but eventually you will get there.

Ray

I am glad to see that Jimmy's tests are just about the same as mine. I have to add that the feedback with the 12k Nani is much better than the 16k Shapton, but the result under the 60x scope is pretty much identical.

Ray

Originally Posted by rayman

I am glad to see that Jimmy's tests are just about the same as mine. I have to add that the feedback with the 12k Nani is much better than the 16k Shapton, but the result under the 60x scope is pretty much identical.

Ray

Thanks Ray, I had that epiphany after reading this thread here a couple of weeks ago. Rocked my world you might say.

Jimmy, one thing I will point out is a believe you should look to the JIS (new) category for naniwa grits as tehy are using the new JIS standards, so Shaptons numbers increase faster (close around 1k, but nani 12k =~ shap 16k)
I think I am leaning towards Nani's.
Thanks for your testing, and your recommendation Nani's over Shaptons is what I wanted to hear a few weeks ago (no one who had used both (only like two people) would make a clear recommendation).
However, to put the thread back on track, can someone please recommend which stones would be good to have? I'm no longer thinking 1k _k 8k, maybe 1k, 3k, 5k? Since the nani's run smooth, should I get a lower hone? 600? Will the 8k help? Please remember I am on a budget and would like to stick to two or three stones for now.
Thanks!
PS:
Jimmy if you could could you please post/PM once you have played with your Naniwas more? Thanks!

Karl, going by the JIS grit chart I notice that the micron size is close in the lower grits. So a 1k USA hone is roughly equivalent to the same grit in the Japanese hone. Above that you start to see a difference in micron size between the designated grits labeled on the hones.

So with my finding the Norton 4/8 an effective combination I have found the 3k and 5k in the Japanese hones roughly equivalent. For my preferences a 1k,3k,and 5k would be all I would need. If I wanted finer polishing an 8k and more icing on the cake a 12k would top it off.

These are my preliminary impressions based on the information from the grit chart. What little honing and shave testing I've done with this setup seems to bear it out and if I read him right Rayman has had the same conclusions and the same results.

You still have no hones?
How can you live?

Nanis, nanis, nanis!!!!