Thread: Help with Naniwa set up

I think after much deliberation I will either be going with a 1k 4k 8k Shapton Glass from Jende, or 1k _k 8k from somewhere else. Already have a Swaty, a Thuringen (very fine) and a J-nat (very fine)

I have not decided between them and am NOT looking for advice as to this.

What I want to know is which is better for the Naniwa middlestone, a 3k or a 5k?

Also, if I have to buy the stones piece meal, would it be better to get the 8k or middle grit stone first?

I was thinking the middle grit, then just be real patient on the Swaty, then finish up til I can afford the 8k.

I have a set of Naniwas 1k, 3k, 5k, 8k, 12k and a 16k Shapton. I noticed that using the 5/8k combination to do a pyramid seemed to take a little longer than I thought it should, and couldn't figure out why, until I read a grit chart posted by someone here on this thread that indicated that the Japanese stones are rated different. The 3k is closer to a 5k and the 5k is closer to an 8k. I then tried a pyramid with the 3/5k combination and it produced the results I was previously getting from a norton 4/8k but much smoother. I think if you can only get one stone it might be the 3k and you can finish with your barber hone. It might take longer, but eventually you will get there.

Ray

off topic a bit... why do you have a 12k nani AND 16k Shapton when they are approx. the same?

It was my impression when I got them that they were different grit sizes. It wasn't until afterwards that I discovered the similarities. Either one does the job just as good as the other. I have tested this under a Radio Shack 60x scope and find no differences between the two. So since my honing skills have increased considerably, I just find the additional stone an addition to my arsenal of weapons. LOL.

Ray

Originally Posted by rayman

I have a set of Naniwas 1k, 3k, 5k, 8k, 12k and a 16k Shapton. I noticed that using the 5/8k combination to do a pyramid seemed to take a little longer than I thought it should, and couldn't figure out why, until I read a grit chart posted by someone here on this thread that indicated that the Japanese stones are rated different. The 3k is closer to a 5k and the 5k is closer to an 8k. I then tried a pyramid with the 3/5k combination and it produced the results I was previously getting from a norton 4/8k but much smoother. I think if you can only get one stone it might be the 3k and you can finish with your barber hone. It might take longer, but eventually you will get there.

Ray

Here is a post with a link to the comparative grit chart illustrating the point.

well considering I'm using the barber hone for everythign right now.... I'm pretty patient.

So I understand 3k might be good as my only stone, but which would work better in 1k _k 8k? 3k or 5k?

I have that grit chart, I'll post it here.

Originally Posted by khaos

well considering I'm using the barber hone for everythign right now.... I'm pretty patient.

So I understand 3k might be good as my only stone, but which would work better in 1k _k 8k? 3k or 5k?

I have that grit chart, I'll post it here.

Well if you wanted to have a similar experience as with a Norton 4/8 it would seem from the chart that a 2k or 3 and a 5k would give the same results as the Norton pyramid. Of course the chart addresses the Shapton compared to the Norton and the DMT. The Naniwa isn't included but it may be safe to assume that they being Japanese stones will have a similar grit rating.

Originally Posted by khaos

well considering I'm using the barber hone for everythign right now.... I'm pretty patient.

So I understand 3k might be good as my only stone, but which would work better in 1k _k 8k? 3k or 5k?

I have that grit chart, I'll post it here.

The Shapton stones are exactly what they indicate in grit sizes, or at least close to it. The Nani's seem to be different however. If you are dead set on a 1k _k 8k, then I would go with a 5k. This will give you a decent progression when using the pyramid method and you will still be able to achieve the sharpness you are looking for in a reasonable amount of time.

Ray

Originally Posted by khaos

off topic a bit... why do you have a 12k nani AND 16k Shapton when they are approx. the same?

I have to ask, as I've been deciding between these two stones for a while now, but is the above statement true? If so, then how is a 12k hone comparable to a 16k? Seems like quite a gap to be calling them similar.

Because different people have different ways of measuring the grit. Grit is not a unit. If it said micron, that is a unit and is definite.
Shapton blatantly advertises that their 8k grit is 1.84 micron. Its printed right on their hone. On Norton's website they claim their 8k grit is 3 micron. I confirmed that Naniwa uses the new JIS standard (JIS is Japanese Industrial Standards, like America's ANSI or Europes FEPA) which describes 8k as 1.2 micron. The ANSI and FEPA scales don't even go that high, they both end around 2000 (I think FEPA actually ends at F2000, which is different from FEPA's P2000 which is coarser, but I recall seeing a few two thousands something ANSI grits). 1 micron is defined as 1/1000,000 of a meter, which is a standardised unit. Grit depends on the country. Same way as an Imperial/British gallon is more than a US gallon, and Imperial/British mile longer than a US mile, a Metric ton more than a US ton, a degree Fahrenheit less than a degree Celsius/Kelvin (the scales share teh same unit, just different benchmarks). In England they won't say Imperial gallons. They'll just say gallons. In the US they won't say US gallons. You wouldn't say I filled my tank with 10 US standard gallons of gas. Just gallons. Same way on hones. Wusthof's hones read 800 1200 1500 2000 I believe, but in FEPA, so in JIS thats closer to 1k, 2.5k, 4k, 8k. If I were in Germany and said it were ninety degrees they'd think I was raving mad cus they use degrees Celsius, where 90 is close to boiling. If I specifiy 90 deg F, then its all clear.