Thread: My Secret Shame

I think it is a good approach IF.... (and you're gonna kill me for this if)

You include repeatability. Use that process on all the razors, then try something else. (or one razor many times...)

I feel like if you did that with your Dovo and it doesn't work, and you try something with your Genco and it doesn't work, whose to say that the first process can't work on the Genco and the second on the Dovo?

Let me rephrase (sorry if its confusing- I can't quite articulate this well)-
If you try this and it doesn't work on your Dovo, it could be because it was your first try with this method, or the Dovo itself, or just random chance (any process is bound to fail some percent of the time). I would either: try multiple times with the Dovo, or try multiple razors each way. Since trying multiple times with the Dovo would be boring (and its possible it won't respond to this technique) I would try it on another razor first before giving up on it.

Make sense? If not I'm sorry I'll try saying it a different way (reading through this I feel like the syntax is off... sorry... I'm tired and wired on caffeine after cramming for a massive test tonight)

Originally Posted by Lesslemming

You could try to hone your razor up to the standart sharpness without j-nat
and add two more layers of tape and make a doublebevel on the j-nat
(without slurry -keep it basic)

+1 on that.

Give it 100 laps or so. At first the very edge could have problems because it has to cope with all abrasion concentrated on a extremely narrow strip of steel. (as mparker762 mentionned) But soon that strip grow a bit wider and start to gain definition. It will reach a the keenness limit of the given hone on the given steel.
If it overhones, something I doubt very much, you can see that with magnification.

Do exactly the same on the Swedish steel razor that gave the excellent results.

Test shave with both edges: it will tell you exactly what you want to know.

Bart.

Jim, the most logical thing I can think of is to let the barber hone those razors you mentioned with the stone. That way you completely eliminate yourself from the equation. If I have read the thread right, you are not sure whether it is you or the steel or the hone. By doing what you propose, the only way you will get resolution is if it works. If it does not, you will still be none the wiser and just as confused as before. At least if you let the barber do it, if he fails you will know it is not you. And if he succeeds, that only leaves one possible explanation...

James.

Well, the first test was not promising.

I started out unstropped to see what the actuall edge felt like. Like last night, sharp and good. Using just the barest hint of water, with only the pressure of the blade to hold it on the stone, I did a couple of threee-pass sets. I felt no change, so I moved up to 5 passes. Nothing. After a while, up to 10. Again, I felt nothing--I was focusing on tough areas, that would show pull or smoothness the clearest I thought, and I felt nothing until I hit 75 passes. At that point, I started feeling tugging and dullness creep in. I stopped at 80 passes, and the edge was noticeably worse than last night...on the ATG pass it was uncomfortably tuggy.

Soooo...I'll try Tape, and Sunday I'll take the razors to my barber. This is ridiculous...

the only way I can see you dulling th blade is if you are not keeping it flat. I don't see you doing that unless you are using so little pressure that the blade is actually bouncing around or riding unevenly on the water (did you add a bit of soap to the water to break the surface tension?).

I vote for using a little More pressure.

OK, so here's what I did next.

Last night, I took the Dovo and, since I had already taken it past comfort I gave it about 30 more passes, up to 100 or so, just to see.

Then I took the Genco and gave it the same treatment as the Dovo before--5 passes then shave, 5 passes then shave. I got up to about 20 passes before I noticed any change. It got a bit rougher, dulling, and finally I stopped at 50. it was still shaveable, but not good enough for me.

So tonight, I changed it up a bit more. I took the Dovo from last night and, as it was well beyond what I wanted, I said to heck with it, and gave it 100 passes on the PHoIG (Chinese water hone).

Then I took the Herder, which has not had any finishing, and gave it 100 on the PHoIG.

Then I stropped the Dovo and Herder on Cordovan, 25 laps.

Then I took the Genco form last night, and left it as it was but I stopped it 25 on white pasted linen, 25 on rough horsehide and 35 on cordovan.

The results?

The Genco was unchanged from last night. It was still a but pully and a bit dull.

The two edges off the PHoIG were great. Really, really good. Including the DOVO which was dulled by the Nakayama last night. Explain that!!!!!

The Dovo was not up to what I'd call par, but the Herder certainly was. Smooth and keen...

I don't know, I really don't.

Jim give me favor ? would You
start one razor and finish it .then go to next one.
i am confused really don't know where are you at and which stage are you. choose razor and lets start over.
1 razor please.
Ok
we will go together.

Jim,
I think its time to go to the barber and/or send that stone to Old_school to check out(if he is into that kind of thing).

Remove all doubt and you shall be set free. You must reach a state of total enlightenment with your stone before it releases the holy garnets of smoothness.

Originally Posted by JimR

OK, so here's what I did next.

Last night, I took the Dovo and, since I had already taken it past comfort I gave it about 30 more passes, up to 100 or so, just to see.

Then I took the Genco and gave it the same treatment as the Dovo before--5 passes then shave, 5 passes then shave. I got up to about 20 passes before I noticed any change. It got a bit rougher, dulling, and finally I stopped at 50. it was still shaveable, but not good enough for me.

So tonight, I changed it up a bit more. I took the Dovo from last night and, as it was well beyond what I wanted, I said to heck with it, and gave it 100 passes on the PHoIG (Chinese water hone).

Then I took the Herder, which has not had any finishing, and gave it 100 on the PHoIG.

Then I stropped the Dovo and Herder on Cordovan, 25 laps.

Then I took the Genco form last night, and left it as it was but I stopped it 25 on white pasted linen, 25 on rough horsehide and 35 on cordovan.

The results?

The Genco was unchanged from last night. It was still a but pully and a bit dull.

The two edges off the PHoIG were great. Really, really good. Including the DOVO which was dulled by the Nakayama last night. Explain that!!!!!

The Dovo was not up to what I'd call par, but the Herder certainly was. Smooth and keen...

I don't know, I really don't.

Originally Posted by hi_bud_gl

Jim give me favor ? would You
start one razor and finish it .then go to next one.
i am confused really don't know where are you at and which stage are you. choose razor and lets start over.
1 razor please.
Ok
we will go together.

OK. I'm starting a Torrey tonight. Resetting the bevel now...

Originally Posted by Slartibartfast

Jim,
I think its time to go to the barber and/or send that stone to Old_school to check out(if he is into that kind of thing).

Remove all doubt and you shall be set free. You must reach a state of total enlightenment with your stone before it releases the holy garnets of smoothness.

Indeed. Off to the barber tomorrow, hoping he doesn't have a hangover or any customers. I'm sure he'll have one...care to guess which?

I'd rather not send this stone anywhere...if I can't use it, oh well, but if it gets lost or damaged in the mail I'll never forgive myself.

Originally Posted by OLD_SCHOOL

High quality Japanese natural hones DO NOT dull edges, it's that simple.

One thing I have been thinking about is maybe this isn't a "30k" hone. Maybe this is a "6k" hone. You know, like the Arkansas stones?

I've been wondering this lately. Okay, sure it puts good edges on a razor, but I mean, if we take a moment to reflect on what barber's of yesteryear used- some of them were using arkansas hones that we wouldn't consider finishers. Then, I think about the skill involved. Its been shown a few times that a stones grit isn't the only factor involved- the pressure and skill are major too- hard pressure=rough, light pressure= fine. Finally, the other day I found a post where Glen was shaving off of a 1k? I believe. Had something to do with 1k being a bevel setter/sharpener not necessarily the 4k.

Anyways. This line from you O_S really made me think, what if this stone isn't an ultra fine stone; but rather, through years and years of practice, the barber has learned to use the tools he has at hand to the best of his ability?

I mean, if our hone meisters can get a shaving edge as soon as 4k, and numerous people here can shave off of an 8k, surely its plausible?

I'm not saying its a bad stone I am more reinforcing the barber's skill/Jim's developing technique theory. But I have a suspicion that this is a very high quality, slightly lower grit hone...