The Aoto Thread

[sparq]

Close-up of my aoto. This is what it looks like after lapping and honing (several dozens of laps). To me, it feels more like a clump of mud than a stone.

[hi_bud_gl]

talk to seller he may take it back?

[holli4pirating]

I got mine. It came from 330. It looks like it may have a crack or red inclusion that runs aloung it length wise about in the middle or the stone. I can't tell if it runs through the whole stone, but it looks like it does. All faces of my stone were covered in what looked like saw marks; lots of ridges. They came out very quickly with a DMT 6c - I mean maybe 1 minute on one of the larger faces. Slurry generated was quite dark, and the stone looks beautiful on the lapped face - it is not a flat color like my Dragon's Tongue and has much larger patterns than a BBW. I have not lapped the other face, and I've not taken a razor to her, but it looks like I lucked out and got a winner.

[holli4pirating]

Ok, I've done a little bit of messing around on my Aoto, so I'll share my very preliminary thoughs.

I took Wostenholm that I got off ebay with a chip in the middle of the razor. I picked this one because I know it's good steel, but if I did any damage, it wouldn't matter since it's already chipped.

I started off on a freshly lapped surface and ran the razor over it in normal x strokes to see how it felt. Pretty smooth. I then started doing some circles with a "firm" stroke (to use some language I picked up from Lynn today) and found that yes, the hone will generate some slurry when being used with a firm stroke. During this initial stage, I found that the surface was drying out relatively quickly. I'm not sure if this was because I was pushing water off the edge or because the hone was absorbing the water (perhaps more use will tell...). So, as I added water to keep the surface nice and wet, I found that the slurry tended to stay pretty thin. That was nice, because it means that, under "normal" use, I can maintain a light slurry pretty easily. I checked the scratch pattern on the razor, and it looked pretty nice - nothing too deep, but it was clear that metal was being removed.

I then worked up a slurry by rubbing the stone with my pocket sized Spiderco Medium. When I had a bit of a slurry going, I went back to firm circles and X's to see what she did. The thick slurry stayed pretty thick, even as I slowly added water to the hone, so I know that the surface was breaking down as I was going along. I could smell metal, but was unable to tell what was slurry and what was metal on the hone. I thought things were going nicely, but then I spotted some grooves on the surface of the hone. My first thought was that I had not totally lapped out the grooves that came on the stone, so I pulled out the same DMT and refreshed. I then went back with the spyderco med and worked up a slurry and did some firm circles again. Again, after a while, I found grooves in the hone.

Now, I'm not sure whether the grooves were a product of circles with a firm hand or whether the stone was just wearing unevenly, so I'm not going to jump to any conclusions. I can say that this has never happened to me before, but I've also never used such a soft hone. So, this is something I need to experiment with.

But, I thought to myself, maybe I'll not be able to use this hone with pressure, so let's see what it does with just a light stroke. Also, around now, the bevel was starting to form, but not very well. I'm not sure if that was because of the shape the edge was in when I started or the unevenness forming on the face of the hone, but it did tell me that this thing was moving some metal.

So my next step was to figure out what I could do with no pressure.

In order to re-normalize my edge, I pulled out my DMT6c and did a bunch of circles on both sides of the razor. I then tested out a spot on the edge and found the normal stickyness one would expect off a DMTC. That would serve as my reference.

I took the razor back to the Aoto with just water and a light stroke. I did 80 quick circles on each side and then 20 normal x strokes. Over this time, I did find that a light slurry was forming, but not much at all. I then went to test my reference spot of the razor by seeing what it would do to arm hair, and it was cutting quite cleanly.

So here are my thoughs about my Aoto thus far
- I need to see if using pressure actually causes the hone to wear unevenly or if that is due to my use of circles. To test this out, I will do firm strokes straight across the hone (no x movement) to see if uneven wear develops. If there is uneven wear, then it seems to me the hone wears unevenly. If there is no uneven wear, then I would guess it is the circles.
-This thing can remove some metal. At best, it could be used as a bevel setter for edges that need minimal work (possibly replacing my King 1k). At worst, it will be quite useful at removing scratch marks from a coarser, more aggressive hone (like my Norton 1k).
-This razor should fit in nicely between my bevel setter and a med/fine hone, such as my Dragon's Tongue or my BBW.
-So far, I like this hone. It removes metal, it leaves a decent polish, and it provides good feedback. Since the hone is softer, you can really feel the edge start to bite into the hone as it becomes keen. That is a very useful sign, because it tells you it's probably time to go up to the next stone before you even check the edge with a standard test.

[sparq]

Thank you Holli. Your aoto must be coming from the same batch as mine. Watch for the uneven wear. It feels like one side of my stone is even softer that the other one.

Here is a picture of an edge with chips that was posted to another thread also.

[joke1176]

just got my stone from Hida tool today, and one of the faces has the same looking inclusions in it. I lapped the worst looking side, and a nicer looking "side" of it with cross grain of the strata (if that makes sense) and tested a razor on it to see what happened:

-it seems to be honing evenly, and the stone is wearing evenly on both sides.

-the vein of inclusion on it's face doesn't seem to be negatively impacting the edge thus far, no significant chipping evident at 60x magnification.

-it is thirsty and will take some adjustments on my part to keep the slurry that easily forms at an even...liquidity... while I hone.

-cuts reasonably fast, not like a DMT, but removed a nasty chip in approx 100 passes or so. Light to minimal pressure. If I bear down on it, it digs harder and seems to cut a bit faster. No surprise there for a very soft stone.

-leaves a hazy finish that looks more like 3-4k, rather than 1-2k. Very even scratch pattern akin to my Japanese finisher, but coarser obviously.

-gives nice feedback, almost like a super coarse coticule: grainy feeling, not silky as a belgian blue stone.

-no luck with a HHT, even though the edge looks OK under the scope. This part I am not surprised by, considering how soft it is.

-the cross grain side doesn't feel as nice while honing, but I don't notice any performance differences as yet.

I will fool around with it more and update in this thread if I find anything different.

[holli4pirating]

I'm guessing it appears finer than the rated 1-2k because it's a rating is probably in JIS, which is finer than Norton's rating system, and because it's a natural so the grit breaks down and moves around.

I'm glad to hear yours is wearing evenly, Joke; gives me hope that mine will too when I back off with the firmness and use some slurry instead.

[avatar1999]

Looks like I'm gonna have to get one of these bad boys...wish I knew where I was gonna get the money for it LOL

[JimR]

I'm guessing it appears finer than the rated 1-2k because it's a rating is probably in JIS, which is finer than Norton's rating system, and because it's a natural so the grit breaks down and moves around.

I'm glad to hear yours is wearing evenly, Joke; gives me hope that mine will too when I back off with the firmness and use some slurry instead.

I haven't used one of these stones, so this is pure speculation, but since the Naniwas and Kings (and Shaptons, though I've never used one of them, either) are also JIS, and the 1K stones they make don't have that fine a scratch pattern, could it be that these stones, like other naturals, release a slurry that breaks down and starts to get finer as you use it?

I mean, the Aoto is a silica based stone, like a lot of other natural stones (Thuringian, Nakayamas, etc.), and if they are soft then the binding agent must be pretty weak as well. So the released silica will be fracturing and getting finer, won't t?

This might explain the results of a "finer" edge, as well as the hazy finish.

But again, this is pure speculation...I'm waiting till next year, and my next trip to The Big City, to get mine. (I went to Fukuoka and found a knife shop that had a big old Aoto for about $60...it had been sitting there for at least 10 years, the guy said, and so I reckon it can wait a wee bit longer...)

[holli4pirating]

Looks like I'm gonna have to get one of these bad boys...wish I knew where I was gonna get the money for it LOL

You're in luck, they're not all that expensive.