Thread: Newbie question on hone use

Just ordered this 8"x3" coticule/BBW combo which will arrive in a day or two. The last time I honed a blade was my cub scout knife 40 years ago!

I currently have a Wosty Pipe razor and a Clauss USMC, that Lynn recently honed, and are my day to day shaves which at some point I would like to be able to touch up on my own. I also have two more Clauss razors that need to have the bevels reset and then finished as well.

I've been studying the hone wiki for days and I'm frankly overwhelmed with the amount of details and info posted so I thought a seasoned member could distill it down for me.

Question one: Is this cot/BBW combo enough to set the bevels AND bring the the razors to shave ready keeness? (assuming I know what I'm doing)

Question two: I'm going to order a slurry stone, does creating a slurry on this combo stone do any damage or make the surface uneven? Should I have a separate set just for slurry?

Any advise on the minimum stones(types) needed to achieve the above would be welcome.

That is an expensive first hone. Hopefully it will be a good one. I say "hopefully" because you take your chances with any natural hone in that the cutting characteristics will vary from one to the next. This makes it more difficult to say whether or not a bevel setting can be done with your particular hone.

Answer one: Coticules are great hones. They can be addictive and they are fun to play with but some can be a hell of a lot of work to use for bevel setting and some are practically impossible to use for that purpose. Again it's a hone variability issue. To me, Bart's unicot and dilucot honing strategies are an interesting novelty, but not something I personally would choose to use. I don't mean that as a put down of them, I just don't want to waste the hones that way. I prefer to use them as touch up or finishing hones. You will just have to experiment with yours and figure it out on your own. You can either by a small bout or a small diamond plate for raising a slurry, which you will need for bevel setting.

Answer two: If you uniformly go over the surface, there is little risk of making the surface uneven. Over time if you notice the ends are higher, then just concentrate on rubbing those areas to make the slurry. Rubbing the surface does not damage it--just the opposite, it refreshes it, though that is less of an issue for coticules as they are pretty much constantly refreshing themselves as they are being used.

Originally Posted by WineGuyD

I've been studying the hone wiki for days and I'm frankly overwhelmed with the amount of details and info posted so I thought a seasoned member could distill it down for me.

Question one: Is this cot/BBW combo enough to set the bevels AND bring the the razors to shave ready keeness? (assuming I know what I'm doing)

Distilled down answer : In theory, yes... in practice, GFL

Question two: I'm going to order a slurry stone, does creating a slurry on this combo stone do any damage or make the surface uneven? Should I have a separate set just for slurry?

Distilled down answer: A DMT 325 will do everything...

Any advise on the minimum stones(types) needed to achieve the above would be welcome.

Hope that helps

I'm not as experienced as others here, but I will give you a few small things I've learned that might even be more useful for you than the nuances and added details that you learn from others much more experienced. (You can thank me later!)

First, the combo stone you have ordered is a top notch, A+ stone. It looks like it comes from Michael Poe at Best Sharpening Stones, and he sells only the very best Belgian stones. I'm sure the quality will be more than sufficient for your needs.

And yes, you can learn to hone on a $250+ 8x3 Belgian combo stone, just like you can learn to drive in an S-class Mercedes. It's just not an experience that most here can say they've duplicated. If you take things slowly and watch some videos of others honing, I'm sure you will have it down in no time.

You will need a slurry stone, because it's just easier to get your sharpening started with a nice slurry already on top of the stone, and Michael will probably sell you an excellent little combo slurry stone to go with your 8x3 stone. The slurry stone does not make the surface of the main stone uneven, unless you rub it on just one tiny spot on the surface of the stone. But why would you do that? Just ask Michael to make sure the stone he is giving you is completely lapped and flat and ready to hone with, and you will be good to go.

You do not want to start out by trying to set a bevel on a combo stone. It just takes too much time, and if you don't know what you are looking for to begin with, then trying to figure out how to do it on that stone is going to make things even more complicated. On the other hand, unless you are starting out with either a brand new, never honed razor or something else that is completely not shave ready, you probably will not need to set any bevels, at least not right away. For bevel setting most razors, I think a 1000 grit stone is probably the best. Lower grits are for razors that need to be restored more than honed.

And you probably will want to get some kind of finishing stone too -- something beyond the coticule just for polishing. If you love the natural stones and want to go deluxe with it, then get a nice Escher or Japanese finishing stone (or, like me, get both of these, then buy two or three or four more of each of them, then fight with your wife about your HAD addiction, then . . . where was I?!?). You can of course finish the razor completely on just the coticule, but again, that takes some skill and practice, and right now, you want to get results! So spring for a nice finishing stone too. I understand the Chinese 12k stone is excellent too and inexpensive, although I've never tried one.

Last thing -- get a small lapping stone, like a Naniwa 220. These stones are really useful in case you need to flatten your coticule for some reason or you want to build a bit of slurry on your finishing stone. And they are not too expensive either.

Anyway, I hope this helps, and definitely post some photos of that stone when you get it from Michael!

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Hope that helps

Thanks!

What is the meaning of "GFL"

Great Foutains of Lather

Originally Posted by JeffE

First, the combo stone you have ordered is a top notch, A+ stone. It looks like it comes from Michael Poe at Best Sharpening Stones, and he sells only the very best Belgian stones. I'm sure the quality will be more than sufficient for your needs.

A

You nailed it, it's from Best Sharpening Stones, I believe in quality over quantity and thought this could be something of an heirloom if cared for well.

The stone just arrived shortly after posting my questions and I'm a little surprised and disappointed however, it appears that the stone I received is not the one he posted a pictures of on Ebay. If you look at the following pictures you will note some cosmetic defects on the short edge including a long vein and a short perpendicular black vein. Also, there seams to be a noticeable grain(almost wood like) running the length of the coticule side. In the stone photo I posted earlier, which was pulled from his ebay auction, you can see clearly that the grain of the coticule is much more homogeneous. Given that this was a $260 stone, Should I be concerned about these issues and bring it up with him?

You can tell Michael if you're not happy, and he will refund your money right away. He is a stand-up guy, to my knowledge. I've bought from him in the past and never had a problem.

It's hard to tell if I'm looking at the photos in the way that you are, but what I am seeing a simple vein or two that runs through the length of the stone. These are not only not a problem, but many people (myself included) even consider them to be desirable as they add to the beauty of the surface of the coticule. Some of the surface veins in coticules can be pink or salmon colored, and there are even very dark brown or black splotches formed from magnesium. Very cool stuff, in my estimation.

Now, here's the exceptions. If you are showing me something that is actually a CRACK and not a vein, then you should send the stone back. Your stone is too expensive to arrive with a crack in it, and Michael would certainly know the difference between a crack and a vein. Anytime you see a crack in a coticule, it's just trouble.

The second situation is one I have not encountered with my stones, but sometimes there is a vein running through the stone that is harder than the material you are sharpening so that, over time, the vein leaves small but important imperfections in the surface that you are trying to hone. I don't think this is the situation you have, but you can usually check this by lapping the stone a bit and feeling the vein with your fingertips or even honing a few razors on it. You can ask Michael about it too, but I'm 99.99% positive that this is not the situation you have here.

Gorgeous stone, in my opinion anyway. Don't send it back before using it!!

Also, post some photos of the BBW side too, if you can. I think the BBW side is as useful as the coticule, if not more so, but the BBW doesn't get as much good press. The BBW side should be purplish-blue-black, and hopefully it has dark, sparkly dots embedded in it. Those are the garnets near the surface.

I didn't mention before, but one thing to keep in mind if you believe in buying "quality." These are all NATURAL STONES that come from the ground, which means that they all have variations, veins, blooms and other natural features in them. (Some of my Japanese stones look like they were just chipped out of the ground yesterday with a hand-chisel!) This is part of the pleasure and beauty of natural stones -- kind of like rare, old wines, right?

The coticule side looks perfectly fine IMHO, the sides even look naturally bonded. You'd think a perfectly straight border would be ideal like glued combos have but the naturally bonded combos are valued more because of looks and rarity. Personally I don't know what makes a Coticule 'Selected', but unless you specifically asked for 'Selected' you shouldn't worry about it.

The yellow veins could be characteristic for a certain Coticule layer. My new La Veinette has them too.