Thread: Newbie question on hone use

Originally Posted by JeffE

You can tell Michael if you're not happy, and he will refund your money right away. He is a stand-up guy, to my knowledge. I've bought from him in the past and never had a problem.

It's hard to tell if I'm looking at the photos in the way that you are, but what I am seeing a simple vein or two that runs through the length of the stone. These are not only not a problem, but many people (myself included) even consider them to be desirable as they add to the beauty of the surface of the coticule. Some of the surface veins in coticules can be pink or salmon colored, and there are even very dark brown or black splotches formed from magnesium. Very cool stuff, in my estimation.

Now, here's the exceptions. If you are showing me something that is actually a CRACK and not a vein, then you should send the stone back. Your stone is too expensive to arrive with a crack in it, and Michael would certainly know the difference between a crack and a vein. Anytime you see a crack in a coticule, it's just trouble.

The second situation is one I have not encountered with my stones, but sometimes there is a vein running through the stone that is harder than the material you are sharpening so that, over time, the vein leaves small but important imperfections in the surface that you are trying to hone. I don't think this is the situation you have, but you can usually check this by lapping the stone a bit and feeling the vein with your fingertips or even honing a few razors on it. You can ask Michael about it too, but I'm 99.99% positive that this is not the situation you have here.

Gorgeous stone, in my opinion anyway. Don't send it back before using it!!

I can live with the long salmon colored vein if you are telling me it has no consequence on the honing performance, but that black vein and the grinding blemishes are visually annoying. I'm really not in the mood to go through the hassle of returning or swapping the stone but I really expected better cosmetic quality for the price.

Here's a few pics of the BBW side for JeffE

The circular grinding marks can be felt with the tip of a finger...problem?


there are sparkling garnets, but they are not dark, more like mica

Hi,

Sorry I can't see your pics, I'm at work and some come up, others don't.
Selected grade hones should have no visable flaws or defects, Standard grade will.

Anyway, Coticules are not newbie friendly hones. They take a lot of practice and there's no consistency between them. Each performs differently. Setting a bevel on a Coticule is almost like a magic trick, really. I'd much rather have a good old Norton or Naniwa 1k. As the others said, They're fun to play with, but hard to learn on. If you have the means, I'd get a Norton 4/8k or some Naniwa's, maybe a few old junker razors to practice on. You will have to learn your Coticule. IMHO, They are not the end all, Do all hones..As I said, I can't see it, but if your not happy with, you never will be. It will always bother you that you didn't send it back.

8x3 natural combo's, (if I read correctly) are very, very hard to come by. I was a vendor, I still am to some extent, and I've only seen/sold one..

Also, IMO, A slurry does not harm your hone one bit, That's where coticules excel, and if your lucky enough to be able to set a bevel, it will be with a slurry. I would use a slurry stone. A DMT or sanding will just eat away at your 260.00 hone. Each time you grate or sand, your washing expensive Coticule down the drain. I can't see how thick the Coti layer is, but normally 8x3 combos are thin...Just my opinion...

Rich

Originally Posted by Piet

The coticule side looks perfectly fine IMHO, the sides even look naturally bonded. You'd think a perfectly straight border would be ideal like glued combos have but the naturally bonded combos are valued more because of looks and rarity. Personally I don't know what makes a Coticule 'Selected', but unless you specifically asked for 'Selected' you shouldn't worry about it.

The yellow veins could be charasteric for a certain Coticule layer. My new La Veinette has them too.

This is a "naturally bonded" stone, not a glued pair...that's why I sprang for $260, you don't see these too often.

Originally Posted by WineGuyD

The circular grinding marks can be felt with the tip of a finger...problem?

Not a problem, it just means you will have to lap the stone prior to use, see the wiki

Zib's point is a good one. If you have decided that you don't like the stone for whatever reason, please don't let me talk you into it. Just send it back. Reputable dealers like Michael always take stones back because natural stones have so many different character traits, you don't really know whether you'll like the stone until you try it out.

Personally, I like the look of that stone, but I suppose I might be in the minority here. I do know that Michael cares about having happy customers, so why not give him a shout? He's also got a really nice, thick 6x2 stone for less than half the price of the combo you have, and you'll find that there's really no difference at all between using the 6x2 and the 8x3. I even have a little 4x2 at home that is one of my favorites for honing.

Also, if it's ok for me to add, when you get lots of personal advice and attention from other members here, it's cool to click the little "thanks" button on their messages.

About the circular marks, they should have been lapped out before sending the stone to you. If you have a small lapping stone (like what I mentioned above -- Naniwa makes a great one), it will take those marks out in about 10 seconds. Not a problem, if you're inclined to keep the stone for other reasons. If you're sending the stone back, however, I would mention it to Michael. It's easy to fix, but given your beginner status, he should have taken care of it for you.

Originally Posted by JeffE

Also, if it's ok for me to add, when you get lots of personal advice and attention from other members here, it's cool to click the little "thanks" button on their messages.

I have been posting "thanks" to those that I did not type a written response to.

I sent an email to BSS with pics of the stone to voice my dissatisfaction with the fact that I received a stone other than the one they represented in the ebay auction and asked them to comment before I leave feedback. Since this is a rare size (8x3) and a rare combo stone, I prefer to keep it unless Michael has the one in the photo or another that is blemish free to swap. I'm sure he is as reputable as you say so I'd like to hear his opinion on the stone.

Lovely looking stone you've purchased. IMHO the imperfections are highly desirable, and to me, far more desirable aesthetically than a consistently coloured one (ceteris paribus in terms of garnet content).

Now I take it you've either not read or ignored the numerous posts as to why coticules are not recommended to those new to honing. We will have a hard time differentiating between your technique and or the stone should you run into difficulties, as the exact characteristics are unique to each coticule. No two are the same, where as a 3/8k Naniwa or similar is uniform.

Anyway, its too late although I wanted to make you aware, as Jimmy says, you have fine arrows but do not know how to use your bow. Coticules are not always straight forward.

Not to daunt you, but I also learned on a coticule. I was able to make shave ready a factory edge and perform touch ups. That was it, I never understood how to use it to do anything more. I bought synthetics, learned to bevel set, then went back to the coticule and bought other coticules.

Now I can do all on one should I choose to, with the exception of a badly chipped edge, though I speculate it is indeed possible with enough time. Its not beyond my ability, but it certainly exceeds my desire when I own a DMT 325.

Originally Posted by Scipio

Now I take it you've either not read or ignored the numerous posts as to why coticules are not recommended to those new to honing. We will have a hard time differentiating between your technique and or the stone should you run into difficulties, as the exact characteristics are unique to each coticule. No two are the same, where as a 3/8k Naniwa or similar is uniform.

Its not beyond my ability, but it certainly exceeds my desire when I own a DMT 325.

"ceteris paribus", I figured I'd grow into it. Are you suggesting I get a DMT 325 to set bevels?

Originally Posted by WineGuyD

"ceteris paribus", I figured I'd grow into it. Are you suggesting I get a DMT 325 to set bevels?

I own a DMT 325 as a lapping plate, to lap all my hones with. It also is highly effective to sharpen, before honing, but only really with a nicked edge. An 800 King is my main artificial bevel setter. A DMT 1200 is also very good, as is a 1K Naniwa or 1K Norton, 1K Shapton and various others. For all you know your coticule may be an efficient bevel setter, I have one that is. It's just they are better at taking an established bevel to shave ready. Even Bart uses a 1200 DMT I believe.