Thread: Franz Swaty hone, Austrian

Originally Posted by PonderingTurtle

And again my point is not that there is can not be a difference, just that with out blinding a perceived difference might not equate to a real difference.

But there IS a real difference, and it clearly can be seen by the scratch pattern under a microscope. That difference is not subjective.

Originally Posted by Utopian

But there IS a real difference, and it clearly can be seen by the scratch pattern under a microscope. That difference is not subjective.

+1 in fact it can sometimes be seen with the naked eye...

The only thing that is subjective is which one of those edges You like better on Your face with Your razor...

I won a Franz Swaty stone, along with another similar stone on eBay, and now I would ask if there would be any reason to buy a Chinese water stone, that is about 23.99 since it and the Swatzy are very close (probably) to the same grit??

That really depends on you. They are different. Both are capable of producing excellent edges. Good Chinese hones (not all are the same) can create an edge that is probably a little more comfortable but either will work.
If you are curious, you can always acquire both and then play with them. If you find that you prefer one over the other, you can always sell one of them in the classifieds. Either will likely sell in less than 24 hours.

Originally Posted by Gibbs

I won a Franz Swaty stone, along with another similar stone on eBay, and now I would ask if there would be any reason to buy a Chinese water stone, that is about 23.99 since it and the Swatzy are very close (probably) to the same grit??

It's up to you. If you have the money, why not...It's larger for one, and you may like the edge produced off it. Since they're natural, there are differences between them (C12k) but for the most part, they're good.
They cut slow, so a slurry will speed things up...

Originally Posted by Utopian

But there IS a real difference, and it clearly can be seen by the scratch pattern under a microscope. That difference is not subjective.

And it would matter if what you care about is visual appearance under a microscope. You can measure all kinds of differences with fancy equipment to tell the difference between regular and audiophile stereo equipment, but it doesn't mean your ears can tell the difference.

The only reason that I described the visual difference was to indicate that the actual difference is not subjective. The difference is real.
I have shaved with razors honed only on barber hones for nearly a decade and I have shaved with razors honed on other finishing hones for a couple of years. I can tell the difference and I have no doubt others can as well.

Originally Posted by Utopian

The only reason that I described the visual difference was to indicate that the actual difference is not subjective. The difference is real.

But that does not mean it matters.

I have shaved with razors honed only on barber hones for nearly a decade and I have shaved with razors honed on other finishing hones for a couple of years. I can tell the difference and I have no doubt others can as well.

And that might well be true, but it doesn't mean that a lot of the hype about X being so much better than Y is anything but hype.

Here for example is a source for power cords for audio equipment up to $3500 at least. And after buying a $3500 cord to go from the outlet to your stereo you would most likely hear a real difference, and there could be real measurable differences. That doesn't mean that in a properly blind test that you could reliably distinguish it from a $5 cord. It is also likely you could find audiophile message boards where people rave about how the insanely expensive power cords they are using make a clear discernible difference to them.

People are not reliable for gauging these things.

Here is a perfect example of exactly what I was talking about

First, continually drawing analogies with audio cable is pointless in a discussion about hones, honing, and shaving.

Second, maybe you don't think that the differences between the edges of different hones matters, but a lot of the participants in this section of this forum do in fact care about that difference. We experiment with different hones out of more than just a desire for the "best," but also just for a chance to make comparisons and to learn from them. It matters to us.

Finally, not all of the differences are hype. That is the only reason why I mentioned the differences in visible scratch patterns.

Originally Posted by Utopian

First, continually drawing analogies with audio cable is pointless in a discussion about hones, honing, and shaving.

And about human perception, memory and bias.

Second, maybe you don't think that the differences between the edges of different hones matters, but a lot of the participants in this section of this forum do in fact care about that difference. We experiment with different hones out of more than just a desire for the "best," but also just for a chance to make comparisons and to learn from them. It matters to us.

Finally, not all of the differences are hype. That is the only reason why I mentioned the differences in visible scratch patterns.

I am not saying all the differences are hype, just that hype and bias make it very very difficult to make any kind of definitive statement.