Thread: Naniwa 12K after a Coticule, to improve edges that are good but not great?

Originally Posted by mainaman

you'd add a natural finisher - Escher, Jnat , very fine coticule, or a pasted strop.

this is where i got the idea from. martin mostly finishers on 1.0m and 0.25 bio diamond paste from ti . I have tryed this method with less laps on 10k as i come of water on coticule. the 10k does improve keeness levels if needed.i did find the edge a little coarse for my liking, thats why i would add my coticule or vintage 5x1 thury, or may be crox spray or paste . i asked martin why he uses this progression? he said he preferd to go to a higher grit synthetic, reason being it would take so may laps ona coticule, even though it could be done. he also said he preferd the edges of 10k naniwa. i've had three razors honed in this way by martin and they all were very sharp indeed . i just found the edges to be to corse for me .

gary

what i don't understand is why you would go from a 30k stone and step BACKWARDS for a finisher...

i personally go from my 1k for bevel to a 6k then to my chinese 12k then to a pasted leather strop with .5 micron diamond then my latigo strop....... i wouldn't then go back to the 6k..... why the step back??

i don't think many people would drop back from a 12k to a 6k , they may go from a 30k synthetic, in this case a shapton 30k. and then finsh with a natural stone . a natural stone tends to tame a very sharp edge , probably just like cronium oxide would. even a ch12k would probably work, i'm not to sure. may of us have used nortons for majority of the work, ten finished with a natural finisher to create a more forgiving softer edge , thats how it feels to me any way. i've shaved of 12k naniwa a couple of times and that is very close if not as good as a natural finisher. i'd never go back to a 6k after a 12k. naturals don't have grit rating, they just make a sharp nice edge a little more skin feindly in my opinion. same as cro .ox

Originally Posted by gary haywood

i don't think many people would drop back from a 12k to a 6k , they may go from a 30k synthetic, in this case a shapton 30k. and then finsh with a natural stone . a natural stone tends to tame a very sharp edge , probably just like cronium oxide would. even a ch12k would probably work, i'm not to sure. may of us have used nortons for majority of the work, ten finished with a natural finisher to create a more forgiving softer edge , thats how it feels to me any way. i've shaved of 12k naniwa a couple of times and that is very close if not as good as a natural finisher. i'd never go back to a 6k after a 12k. naturals don't have grit rating, they just make a sharp nice edge a little more skin feindly in my opinion. same as cro .ox

thank you for the explanation.... i see your point.... i was kinda exaggerating when i said return to the 6k.....

but if you have honed it out to 30k why bother going back to the natural stone "to create a more forgiving softer edge"?.....

why bother with the 30k if you are going to go backwards?? why not just go straight from the 4k8k to the coti and shave???


i am not trying to cause controversy... i am just trying to understand the reasoning....

Originally Posted by paco664

why bother with the 30k if you are going to go backwards?? why not just go straight from the 4k8k to the coti and shave???

Realizing that you are directing your question to Gary, I am going to interject my own experience. I had a Shapton Pro 30K and rarely used it. Found my escher or fine finishing coticule ..... as opposed to some not so fine .... to be all I needed and wanted in a shaving edge. That is why I eventually sold the 30k. Not that it isn't a great finisher, but for me it was just too much of a good thing. YMMV.

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

Realizing that you are directing your question to Gary, I am going to interject my own experience. I had a Shapton Pro 30K and rarely used it. Found my escher or fine finishing coticule ..... as opposed to some not so fine .... to be all I needed and wanted in a shaving edge. That is why I eventually sold the 30k. Not that it isn't a great finisher, but for me it was just too much of a good thing. YMMV.

exactly my point... i was wondering why someone had a Shapton Pro 30K and rarely used it why would honers *(sic) go alllllll the way out there *(and 30k is out there)... then go backwards... i am just curious as to why they would do that .....

thanks for your answer...

well i never used a 30k shapton. from what i have read not many folks felt the need for it. i do see your point. if i had a 30k i would expect it to be te bollocks in finishers.
gary

Originally Posted by paco664

thank you for the explanation.... i see your point.... i was kinda exaggerating when i said return to the 6k.....

but if you have honed it out to 30k why bother going back to the natural stone "to create a more forgiving softer edge"?.....

why bother with the 30k if you are going to go backwards?? why not just go straight from the 4k8k to the coti and shave???


i am not trying to cause controversy... i am just trying to understand the reasoning....

One reason to go backwards is demonstrated by the success of
the pyramid method. I was astounded by the effectiveness of
the method and it is still the best kept secret for a lot of
beginners as they start honing.

The classic pyramid was done with a Norton 4k/8K combo hone.

Why it works is a topic for another thread.

Originally Posted by niftyshaving

One reason to go backwards is demonstrated by the success of
the pyramid method. I was astounded by the effectiveness of
the method and it is still the best kept secret for a lot of
beginners as they start honing.

The classic pyramid was done with a Norton 4k/8K combo hone.

Why it works is a topic for another thread.

I was going to say before this whole thread has pretty much been just referring to Lynn's Pyramids with different stones lol. Yeah....it works LOL

Back some years ago there was a debate within the honing forums on whether a razor could be too sharp. The general consensus became that it couldn't be too sharp but it could be too harsh. Some of the honemeisters, at that time, suggested that if you found your edge too harsh upon completing your finishing ..... talking higher girts here over 8k, you could go back to the previous high grit and soften the edge. So, just thinking out loud here, since a fine, finishing coticule is generally known to leave a very comfortable and smooth feeling edge, perhaps that is why some guys would 'go back' in the progression.

Edit; Gary was posting while I was typing .... says the same thing I think ? Proving that great minds think alike.