Quote Originally Posted by Gamma View Post
In my honing adventures, the 8k Naniwa and 8k Super Stone did not bring a blade to the same place. In fact I used the 8k Naniwa to finish after the 8k Norton until I got a 12k.
I'm not certain about particle size of either - grit alone doesn't tell the whole story. I compared the 8k Norton to the 5k SS after maxing out the same blade on each a couple of times.
Gamma, is this a typo in the first sentence? Did you mean 8k Norton and a 8k Super Stone (commonly abbreviated SS)? I'll get back to you, Gamma.

Quote Originally Posted by Memorael View Post
I read somewhere that the norton 8k grit size is about 3 micron putting it on the JIIS scale at around 4k just for the record.
and...

Quote Originally Posted by randydance062449 View Post
I do not think that is accurate.
Randy and I have had the mentor/disciple dance going for awhile. I've touched his hones and he's touched mine. Heck, we've even arranged to have our identical hones touch each other! (Spyderco ultra-fines... sexy scraping...). So, to say we're on intimate terms isn't an exaggeration...

Quote Originally Posted by Gamma View Post
I compared the 8k Norton to the 5k SS after maxing out the same blade on each a couple of times.
A brief history where I'm coming from. I have two combination Norton stones since early 2008. 220/1000 & 4k/8k, the 4k/8k "hecho in Mexico", and ache-oh it IS-oh: the 4,000 is evil, has micro-pits that swarf lodges in and destroys the fine edge of any razor unfortunate enough to travel on it. So I got a Naniwa SS 5k, then a SS 3k. The Naniwa SS 5k was okay, I guess. I didn't like it as the intermediate before the Norton 8k. So I got the Naniwa 3k to bridge between the Norton 1k and Naniwa 5k. Now that I have used it (Naniwas) longer it helps, and now I do the full progression from 220/1000 to Naniwa SS 3k, 5k, then back to Norton, finishing on Spyderco ultra-fine. I felt the Naniwa 5k was not efficient or appropriate as a bridge between the Norton 1k and 8k.

They are softer and wear away faster, deforming under hard razor steel. They require more frequent lapping then the Nortons. They work good, are "comfier" which I attribute to their gel-like release beyond swarf, is that the binder? I guess that's good for honing fine edges, but it is a different hone set-up. I've read of someone being surprised how nice the edge off a Naniwa SS 5k was from their comparison to a Norton 8k, and under the microscope I can believe it. The grit rating system is not close enough to be equivalent.

Quote Originally Posted by gugi View Post
Both will get you at more or less the same place, the difference is mainly in the feedback. I have both (actually the 1-5-8-12 naniwa) but I don't really use the norton since I've got the naniwas. I don't like the porosity of the norton 4k, and that's pretty much my reason - just a matter of a whim which I can afford to have. The dmtc is nice, I have no regrets about getting it even though it's kind of expensive compared to say sandpaper or the norton lapping plate.
I understand about the thirstiness of the Norton 4k, but the highest layer of my own Norton 4k, which was the only part of it that worked right (before I lapped it off) was a fast metal remover and was the perfect bridge in the Norton system. The Naniwas deserve special treatment in regards to their swelling with water. I give the Naniwa Super Stones special attention and always make pencil grids on them before honing, being sure to spray them with water a few times before the initial lapping, keeping track of time (5-10 minutes) and lapping off pencil marks before honing. If my honing takes them out past one razor (rare for me) I'm sure to keep them constantly lapped due to swelling. That means I have to lap and chamfer them several times during use. Not the best for newbies compared to Nortons. But that's as someone who's used to really nice (to me) edges, maybe a newbie wouldn't be so discerning of the final product (edge).

I like that the Naniwa 3k & 5k Super Stones keep water on their surface well, but I don't think they fit into the Norton system as well as Norton's own 4k. I am not a collector of hones, I'd have preferred to just have a functionally complete Norton setup and finish with the Naniwa 12k (don't have one, never used one) or my Spyderco Ultra-Fine. I think Naniwas are trickier for inexperienced honers due to swelling with water, which outweighs the benefit of water on the surface.

Now I like them all, because I've developed an individual relationship to each hone and have in hand a water sprayer, pencil, DMT 8x3 coarse, and chamfer edges with a Spyderco fine on higher-grit hones (as well as smoothing out past lapping with the DMT). But I think Norton-Naniwa differences merit special attention and descriptions and advice in the wiki and discussion (esp. for beginners).

It's hard enough for beginners just getting their honing technique down!

P.S. I don't want an established honing mentor like Randy to be associated too closely with me, I am my own person and can make mistakes and have my own preferences. Don't judge Randy based on my unscrupulous and vile behavior!