Thread: New Coti and a Norton

Just arrived today, my new Coticule and slurry stone! I also picked up a Norton JB8 because I'm restoring an old razor that currently about as sharp as a butter knife. I figure I'll get an edge started with the Norton stone (fine side) and then finish it on the Coti. Any suggestions?

what grits are those nortons?

Originally Posted by gary haywood

what grits are those nortons?

The Norton is rated as course/fine. I wasn't planning on using the course side for a razor...too course. But the fine side seems just about right to start the edge. I figured I'd cover the spine of the razor with masking tape and use the Norton dry to get it started then remove the tape and finish on the Coti with a lot of slurry, then a bit less, then water only, etc. That's my plan anyway.

That Norton looks like a carborundum stone to me and they need to be used with oil.
IME they would be far too course (even the fine side) to use on a razor.
Unless the edge is damaged (ie. chips etc.), I would start on a 1k hone with electrical (not masking) tape.
The reason - masking tape falls apart when exposed to water and wears quickly - PVC tape wears quickly enough on a 1k (something to keep and eye on when bevel setting)
You might like to get onto YouTube and search for gssixgun - you will find out all you need to know about bevel setting from Glen's videos.
He does one one using a coticle too.
Hang on and enjoy the ride

Originally Posted by Havachat45

That Norton looks like a carborundum stone to me and they need to be used with oil.
IME they would be far too course (even the fine side) to use on a razor.
Unless the edge is damaged (ie. chips etc.), I would start on a 1k hone with electrical (not masking) tape.
The reason - masking tape falls apart when exposed to water and wears quickly - PVC tape wears quickly enough on a 1k (something to keep and eye on when bevel setting)
You might like to get onto YouTube and search for gssixgun - you will find out all you need to know about bevel setting from Glen's videos.
He does one one using a coticle too.
Hang on and enjoy the ride

Thanks. I just watched gssixgun's One Stone Hone, parts one and two. Lots of great advice and technique there but I'm left with two questions if you can help:
1) Why did he use two hones? Was he just demonstrating the same approach to honing on two different stones or was the first stone courser than the second? If that's the case, why's it called "One Stone Hone"?
2) It appeared that he kept the tape on the razor for the entire honing process. I didn't think you could make a razor shave ready with tape on the spine. Wouldn't it be inherently at the wrong angle? I figured taping was just if you had to use a really course stone and didn't want to erode the spine, which I figured one might do to when starting a whole new bevel...and you'd do that when you've got a nick or in my case, when there is NO edge to the razor. That was my thinking. I was planning to not use tape with my coti. What do you recommend?

you can use tape , its personal thing, i only use tape when doing real bevel work, to protect the spine. then i'll remove tape and reset bevel on my coti and dilute and finish with no tape. i don't no how dull your razor is. or how fast your coti is with slurry, but you could try coti with slurry, it may take a while but it could be possable to reset your bevel and hone on the coti alone . Other than that get your self a 1k water stone. such as 1k king or 1 k shapton 1k C or even a 6x2 dmt1200. its your choice. i've heard good things about the 1k king, there cheap also

i use the the 1k C andthe dmt1200, i liked then both, my favourite is 1k C srd stock them also

Originally Posted by eflatminor

Thanks. I just watched gssixgun's One Stone Hone, parts one and two. Lots of great advice and technique there but I'm left with two questions if you can help:
1) Why did he use two hones? Was he just demonstrating the same approach to honing on two different stones or was the first stone courser than the second? If that's the case, why's it called "One Stone Hone"?
2) It appeared that he kept the tape on the razor for the entire honing process. I didn't think you could make a razor shave ready with tape on the spine. Wouldn't it be inherently at the wrong angle? I figured taping was just if you had to use a really course stone and didn't want to erode the spine, which I figured one might do to when starting a whole new bevel...and you'd do that when you've got a nick or in my case, when there is NO edge to the razor. That was my thinking. I was planning to not use tape with my coti. What do you recommend?

Glen has three 'one stone honing' videos IIRC and I'm not sure in which one he explains the use of two hones (it could be the Thuringian) - in essence the 1k (king, chosera, norton, whatever) is the bevel setter.
This is the basis of the edge - if the bevel isn't set right, you're wasting your time and effort going any further.
See if you can find all of them and have a look - the process is the same on any hone that you choose to use, if you are going the one stone route.
I have watched Glen's videos many times and get more information every time I do (and I don't own Shaptons or Nortons or Naniwas). I think it has to do with understanding the process of honing rather than the mechanics.
I have chosen to use tape on the spine of all my razors, however, it is a personal thing - I don't like the idea of restoring a blade only to put hone wear back on it, but that's just me.
I hope this helps.

The King 1200 is definitely an affordable bevel setter. It usually runs around the $25 dollar mark. It's quite soft, and will require frequent lapping, but at the same time, I find it to be a very gentle cutter. If I've got something finicky that just doesn't want to come into line....quite often that stone will be able to make it happen. I quite enjoy mine. It's a well spent $25.

The "One Stone Hone" name is because that is what you use once the bevel is set, or if the razor was previously shaving... You can, on most of the stones use them for a bevel setter also, with the judicious use of slurry stones.. I like my 1k's for that job

I always mention this when people are learning, "Although the videos are a good guide, the most info is in all the Blabbing I do during them" yes I tend to talk a lot some of it is sometimes useful...

Also keep in mind that I have honed a few razors here and there and using the "One Stone Hone" methods are not a 100% option, some of them are as low as 75% the first time through, most are in the 80-90% hit area.. They were designed for people that are more shavers than Hobbyists (read edge chasing OCD idiots) they work quite well for the guys that own a couple of razors and want to keep them as smooth shaving tools and have the time to go back and tweak it a second time if needed...

Tape is your decision, but if you use it at least change it after the bevel set...

Techy Data BS:
Razors have working bevel angles that we measured between 13 and 25 degress these were all shaving razors...
The average came down at 16 degress
On a 6/8 inch razor one layer of 3M electrical tape changes the angle about 1/2 of 1 degree.

Just to clarify, this DOES NOT mean that after 20 honings you razor is now 26 degrees, the edge doesn't wear that fast..

Update...After reviewing gssixgun's one stone hone for Coticules, which was extremely informative, I decided to jump in and give it a try. The razor is about 80 years old or so, made in Germany. It was cleaned up for me by my local barber supply shop but they left the edge as it was...which was extremely blunt. At first I was going to do the whole thing on the Coti but I'm glad I didn't. I taped the spine and set the bevel on the Norton JB8 (fine grit), which it did in no time. If I get in to restoring old razors, I'll look to pick up one of those King or C 1000s but for my first attempt, the JB8 sure seemed to do the trick. Then I worked up a good slurry on the Coti and followed gssixgun's advice...those pigtail strokes aren't easy at first! Anyway, the proof was in the shave, which I say was darn close to my other professionally honed razors. I didn't need the alum block so that's something. I'm going to hit the Coti again and work on those finishing strokes but I'm pretty pleased for my first bevel setting attempt.