Thread: Pasted Strops vs. finishing Stones

Your on the money now bro!! I tell ya, once you get into it, you will get a lot of enjoyment out of trying different things.

Keep it simple, and work your way to what you find works for you!

Good luck,

M

in my experiance if you have a greta shaver after your stone in my case say my coticule, 10 to even 20 strops on cronium oxide, can make all the differance. this is somthing that i have noticed time and time again.

i can shave of stone or paste the differance is inn the shave, just try shaving of stone then next time of crox . i like cronium oxide its realy nice on razors. to me the edge can = the feel of any natural stone if used at the right time and the right amount of laps.

I get a HHT 0,1 off my finishing stone (Naniwa 12K). That is with a few, very light stropping finishing strokes. I have even shaved with it at this level and it was OK, but not great. The CrO on balsa or linen stropping does something magical for my blade that takes it to a solid HHT 2+ across the entire blade. This is a pretty good shaving level. But the leather adds some more "pixie dust" to the edge that often achieves that elusive HHT 3-5 level across the entire blade. Perhaps someday someone will take SEM's (scanning electron micrographs) of each level of SR sharpening (preferably of Lynn's work) where we can actually see what magic is taking place.

I have never had a bad shave with a blade at HHT 2 or more across the entire blade and I think some paste with leather are usually required to achieve this level. My experience is that the diamond pastes can do as well as CrO, but may be less forgiving. At least that has been my experience.

Originally Posted by mjhammer

I have ruined a few edges by over honing/polishing them to death. There is a point where you just have gone to far. hehehe. I had to find it for myself though, even though I had been warned.


Mike

I have heard the term "over honed" several times. I've never heard it really defined.

You touch up on a hone after every other shave?

>>>>>>>>>

I just saw another post describing "over honed" as a burr that can roll over. I thought honing with the spine trailing would prevent a burr like this?

Stones only for me, but the caveat being that I think my stone settled in (like it is, I leave it that way and avoid lapping it if I don't have to) is somewhere in the range of 0.5 CrO on balsa, but with a more comfortable result.

Even if I had an 8k hone, I would follow it up only with green chromium oxide on balsa and then a bare leather strop.

Like someone above said, less is more. There shouldn't be any razor steel (or any precipitate in the steel) that chromium oxide can't cut. It may not cut as fast as diamond, but it's cutting, and it will be more comfortable.

If you can get a natural stone as fine as chromium oxide (like the finest of japanese hones, but not scratchy at all), just follow with a little light work on bare leather and the shave is divine - it is wonderfully sharp without being harsh. Comfortable, and the edge is easy to refresh in about a minute per week. No powders or pastes to keep around, just the stone and a bare leather strop.

Pasted strops can be a very nice edition to your honing arsenal.
There are places out there where pastes make out the most of the honing actually.
Personally I tend to not use them much, but for a quick touch up or refinement of a freshly honed razor, they sure are a nice addition to my arsenal

Just a quick note on CrO.

The average particle size (e.g. 0.5um) does not fully describe the grit or scratching characteristics of CrO, which is definitely not the same as diamond at 0.5um.

Diamond is very aggressive at 0.25um, but the rounded shape of the CrO particle means the facets that actually scratch are very small. I think the range is closer to far less than 0.25um which produces such a slight refinement to the edge as to make CrO the defacto standard over diamond producing a very smooth and uniform surface. I have never found its equal on balsa or strops.

Enjoy.

From a person who made up for mediocre honing technique with a pasted strop (ie. diamond spray on linen) for nearly a year, let me share my wisdom:

1. If you can't get an edge right off your finishing stone which gives you a decent shave, it is most likely that you are lacking in your honing.
2. This is common, and it might take you months (or a year, in my case) to figure out what the hell you are doing wrong with honing.
3. Assuming you cannot get a fine shave right off the rock, and you still want passable shaves until you figure out your honing, you need chromium paste or diamond spray. (.5 micron is really the best IMO, .25 micron leaves too harsh an edge. again, IMO)
4. If you need to do more than 10 complete passes on the diamond spray, you really need to look at your honing.
5. I have not used chromium oxide, so I cannot give you advice with this medium.
6. It is highly likely that your stropping is lacking also.

7. It is HIGHLY ADVISABLE to be able to get a shave-ready edge by finishing your razor on a finishing hone and plain leather strop.
8. This is because the more you use pastes or sprays on a strop, the more you "round" the bevel on a razor. After you use the paste/spray a couple times on a razor, you'll notice that your razor's edge can't be fixed as easily with the paste/spray, and you get an increasingly harsh edge.
9. After rounding your bevel, the next time you go to the sharpening stones, you will have to spend much more time on the hones. I have rounded my edges so bad that an 8k finishing hone wouldn't fix it--had to go back to the 4k, then 8k, to redo the damage I had done.

Again, this is all in my opinion, and my opinion is gotten from a year of mediocity and failures. It is only recently that I figured out my honing issues with the stones I am using, and I still feel my stropping needs perfecting.

What I'm not finding in this post is, there are actually hones as high as 100k grit, even finer than that, but you will have to sell your house to buy them. And for the most of us HADdicts, we need somewhere to store our collection. You can use a paste even for bevel setting, but its time consuming, just buy a stone. For high grits, pastes are the best choice. Yesterday I spend most of my day polishing a blade with 1 micron diamond paste, a toothbrush, and a ball of cotton Leave the 20k$ nakayama for the ones who can afford them. For the rest of us, pastes do the same job and cost less than a slurry stone of those kinds. And, don't underestimate the lapping films. They are just as good as the pastes. For some applications they are even better.

there should be a study comparing the quality of shave and longevity of a razor kept in shape exclusively with pastes and sprays, and a razor kept in shape exclusively with a finishing hone/barbers hone.

I would say that for 50$-100$ you can buy a razor size jnat that will keep your edges in infinitely better shape than a $30 bottle of diamond spray.