Thread: Pasted Strops vs. finishing Stones

If for the 30$ you can buy more than one kind diamond spays or pastes, and you have enough leather for honing, you can strop a razor infinitely. It depends on the experience someone has with the stropping or honing. You might end up with a convex edge, but convex edges shave as good as the ground edges. It will take time. The same goes for the hones, in this case it will take money. With 50$ you can't buy a really fine hone no matter its country of origin (accept the Chinese natural). The time it takes for a razor to loose its sharpness has a little to do with the means it was sharpened. Humidity, abrasiveness of the beards, steel, oils used to preserve the edge etc etc. There are too many variables for such a study.

Originally Posted by Vasilis

What I'm not finding in this post is, there are actually hones as high as 100k grit, even finer than that, but you will have to sell your house to buy them. And for the most of us HADdicts, we need somewhere to store our collection. You can use a paste even for bevel setting, but its time consuming, just buy a stone. For high grits, pastes are the best choice. Yesterday I spend most of my day polishing a blade with 1 micron diamond paste, a toothbrush, and a ball of cotton Leave the 20k$ nakayama for the ones who can afford them. For the rest of us, pastes do the same job and cost less than a slurry stone of those kinds. And, don't underestimate the lapping films. They are just as good as the pastes. For some applications they are even better.

My small bit of rock, which is by no means 100k but that also leaves no visible scratches at all was $165 - it is clearly much finer than any synthetic stone I've used (and I have used most of the finest out there, including several with particle sizes less than 1 micron). Some may not be willing to make that commitment, but it will last eons, especially the way I use it. No green on my fingers, no extra balsa to have around. One stone that should have a lifetime of use and a shave quality that I haven't found elsewhere - soft and very sharp at the same time. The fact that the edge is not rounded all with a hone like that is a bonus - it is extremely easy to keep an edge polished that way, there's no need to drop to another stone and the geometry never changes.

The only thing I don't like them on is razors that have a really bad (warped) grind. A pasted strop with a little give is a lot easier for that type of razor.

Originally Posted by Vasilis

If for the 30$ you can buy more than one kind diamond spays or pastes, and you have enough leather for honing, you can strop a razor infinitely. It depends on the experience someone has with the stropping or honing. You might end up with a convex edge, but convex edges shave as good as the ground edges. It will take time. The time it takes for a razor to loose its sharpness has a little to do with the means it was sharpened.

I would venture to say that an edge maintained only by abraded strops will have less of a uniform cutting surface, that some areas of the edge will be thinner than others, and that the really fine areas of the blades edge will deteriorate faster than the thicker areas. I am not convinced that a pasted strop edge which is maintained exclusively with pasted strops indefinitely is as good as a ground edge, and while I haven't honed 1,000's of razors, or stropped 1,000's of razors, I have a year of using pasted strops under my belt, used on razors until they could be used no more just with an abraded strop, and hones were necessary, and I can tell you that I wouldn't want to go back and do it all over again. How long have you been straight shaving with a self-maintained razor, BTW?

Originally Posted by Vasilis

With 50$ you can't buy a really fine hone no matter its country of origin (accept the Chinese natural). .

Alex has a Japanese natural finishing razor hone for sale on his website for $40. Another couple are $70-$80. I've seen a thread here with many of our members buying purple welsh slate hones, and they're saying they are great finishers, for $40-$50 bucks. I also have an ebay slate hone which improves the edge off my coticule. It cost me less than $50. I'm sure you'll find many members here who will say the same thing.

Always email alex before you get a stone (which will presumably lead to a conversation, which is more productive than you can imagine).

That's where I got my dandy little hone, and since I wanted to try to stay on a budget, through conversation I was able to put my dollars on width and performance and describe that I'd like ugly and effective vs. pretty and not as effective for the same money (my stone is just a tiny bit on the homely side compared to a perfect looking collector's stone, but it is sure effective).

I did email Alex, and he searched through his inventory and found a stone which fit my requirements almost exactly. i think it might have even been you who suggested that I do that

Originally Posted by woodsmandave

I would venture to say that an edge maintained only by abraded strops will have less of a uniform cutting surface, that some areas of the edge will be thinner than others, and that the really fine areas of the blades edge will deteriorate faster than the thicker areas. I am not convinced that a pasted strop edge which is maintained exclusively with pasted strops indefinitely is as good as a ground edge, and while I haven't honed 1,000's of razors, or stropped 1,000's of razors, I have a year of using pasted strops under my belt, used on razors until they could be used no more just with an abraded strop, and hones were necessary, and I can tell you that I wouldn't want to go back and do it all over again. How long have you been straight shaving with a self-maintained razor, BTW?



Alex has a Japanese natural finishing razor hone for sale on his website for $40. Another couple are $70-$80. I've seen a thread here with many of our members buying purple welsh slate hones, and they're saying they are great finishers, for $40-$50 bucks. I also have an ebay slate hone which improves the edge off my coticule. It cost me less than $50. I'm sure you'll find many members here who will say the same thing.

First of all, I have never used with a razor honed by someone else, aside from the disposable ones. After that, I don't question the usefulness of hones, especially the natural ones. Regarding the deterioration of the thinner parts of the razor, wasn't it a part of the honing? If the razor is not uniformly honed before the stropping, many things could go wrong. I don't really care for boasting how many sharp instruments I have sharpened, nor how many decades I have spend doing what I'm doing. What I'm saying is, if you find yourself in a situation where you don't have any hones but you have all the micron sizes of pastes you can use, you can bring a razor to a razor sharpness-very comfortable shave. I can find nakayama for 20$. Coticules 12x4 for 40$. You can find fine bohemian shale stones for 30$ that can compete with the best of coticules, although they become increasingly rare. I was refering to the 15k+ grit stones, where you can't find them easily. The purple welsh stone, are you refering to the yellow lake? usually they are around 10k but I have seen stones finer than Charnley forest. They are naturals. They don't usually have standard grit. If you re lucky, you might find one really really fine.

Originally Posted by Vasilis

First of all, I have never used with a razor honed by someone else, aside from the disposable ones. After that, I don't question the usefulness of hones, especially the natural ones. Regarding the deterioration of the thinner parts of the razor, wasn't it a part of the honing? If the razor is not uniformly honed before the stropping, many things could go wrong. What I'm saying is, if you find yourself in a situation where you don't have any hones but you have all the micron sizes of pastes you can use, you can bring a razor to a razor sharpness-very comfortable shave.

I suppose one could bring a razor to a comfortable shave if he had all the pasted strops in all the different grits and the knowhow to use them to this end. Of course, if one had the money for all this, they might as well just buy a 30k synthetic or jnat... When i was talking about the deterioration of the thinner parts of the razor--I was talking about exclusive use of abraded strops for maintenence, and how the deterioration from that will result in an edge that is no longer uniformly honed, ie some parts of the edge will be thinner than others. Of course, this is just speculation based on my experiences trying to use a pasted strop exclusively for maintenence ( my experience did not turn out so well-the edges were "harsh" after too many times over the pasted strop--which I can only conclude is due to excessive, uneven deterioration of the edge due to the pasted strop). From my minimal experience (compared to yours, it seems) I lean toward the conclusion that another experienced honemeister (Glen) came to:

"The only trick to pastes, is using them correctly without over-using them...
This can quickly become a case of "Too much of a good thing"


BTW, if you find a good sized nakayama for $20 bucks, or a 12x4 coticule for $40, buy it for me, I'll reimburse you

I'm nowhere near the "honemeister" level, and I don't intend to become one, too much pressure The pressure rule applies on the stropping too. With a 1k particle sized paste, minimal pressure and a hard surface (glass?), you can have the same results of a 1k hone. The same goes for the finer grit pastes. I still prefer natural hones, what I'm saying is, it's not impossible to achieve the same level of sharpness with just pastes or sprays. For the 20$ nakayamas, you can find them on ebay. Pretty easily too. But don't expect them to be as good as the 1000$ ones. And for the coticules, keep an eye for the auctions. If you get lucky you might even find them for less than 40$. And I completely agree with the "don't overuse the pastes" nor the hones, especially the man made ones.

I think I understand you better now

Originally Posted by woodsmandave

i think it might have even been you who suggested that I do that

Could be. You can't imagine how many stones I have that turned out to be something other than what I expected. I have ordered two stones from alex (one woodworking and one razor). Strangely enough, they were exactly what alex said they were and exactly what I was looking for when I ordered them.

Maybe one of the other 8 or 9 (or 15?) japanese stones I've gotten turned out to be what I expected. The remainder, I could maybe find a place for them where they excel (they are either coarser or softer than advertised, or both), but that's in woodworking. In shaving, there is no room for a finisher that's "a little too coarse".

And so it goes, I beat the drum of talking to dealers, as the old rule goes - the dealers know a lot more than you do about the stones. If you feel like you're getting something for less (from a dealer you can't talk to, or without talking to a dealer that you could talk to), you're probably just getting less for less.

And if your stone turns out to not be very fine, it'll occupy your drawer for a very long time because you will have a tough time swallowing the loss you'll take on selling it.