Thread: Using Oil on Waterstones: a simple question

Going back to the subject line, we are supposed to be talking about oil on waterstones, right? Not coticules, correct? I got a little caught up in things there and the realized the subject line and felt i was getting off-topic.

Somehow "waterstone" was equated to coticule early on in this thread. Why? I admit to only honing for a year (two?) but it seems rather like jumping to a predetermined conclusion, to be determined wrong.

Originally Posted by Krodor

Going back to the subject line, we are supposed to be talking about oil on waterstones, right? Not coticules, correct? I got a little caught up in things there and the realized the subject line and felt i was getting off-topic.

Somehow "waterstone" was equated to coticule early on in this thread. Why? I admit to only honing for a year (two?) but it seems rather like jumping to a predetermined conclusion, to be determined wrong.

Mostly because they are one of the few "waterstones that anyone even considers it, with many posts of how people are getting "Just a smidge more to Getting a Noticable difference" they are being used this way..


Most water stones point blank State NO !!! there are a very few where the option seems to be open..

As I stated in the beginning there is no doubt that you can get more out of either stone Coticule or BBW, my doubt is that the oil doesn't penetrate, and if it does , would it inhibit the original properties of the stone...

Even the old labels that say Oil or Water might very well mean exactly what they say Oil or Water, it doesn't mean that the stone isn't changed, which brought forth a very simple question.. Which so far only you have even attempted to test with any method what so ever

Well after walking all over campus only to find the geology department is nestled in the physics department lol... I ended up having a fantastic conversation (1.5 hrs actually) with a Dr. E who actually has a bit of notoriety, and has even been featured on t.v. for her work out East on the Discovery Channel. I name her Dr. E as I forgot to ask if I could quote her, what with all the excitement she showed when I pulled out my Coti .

Anyway...

I have to admit that after doing a ton of geology 101 last night in preparation to hopefully speak with a geologist; I thought for sure that there would be no way that a bit of oil would chemically change the property's of a rock that took millions of years to form under extreme pressure. I was half expecting to be a bit slapped around for asking such a dumb question... but I was wrong to assume so.

Yes, oil will change the properties of the stone! Now before anyone feels one way or the other about that, she was very clear to note that everything changes, and that everything is changing, at all times no matter how large or small. The addition of oil will affect the properties of the rock however and that's a truth no matter how small.

BUT speaking of small... those changes really are very, very, small. After I showed her how I hone my razor (yeah I brought a razor lol), she didn't seem to think that it would change enough to make a difference if washed with some kind of soap, but this lady wasn't about absolutes if you know what I mean lol. That said, she was very clear that were you to sand down the rock - you would find it in the exact condition that it was in before the oil.

So there you have it - whatever side you took on the issue - you are half right. If you want to try oil and find you don't like it, sand it down with your DMT and you are back to where you started.

Of course that's if you choose to believe me. Hope that helped!!

Thank you David, it pretty much fits with everything else about this hobby "There are very few Absolutes"

I will not have to test one of my slurry stones now

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Thank you David, it pretty much fits with everything else about this hobby "There are very few Absolutes"

I think that kind of makes it fun! I know that I had a GREAT time speaking with the prof today about it all!! Heck she pulled out more rocks... Sadly however, I know that my dreams of mining the perfectly hidden honing stone in KS is about as faint a dream as it can be too though lol!!

@earcutter, how cool is that! Thats really neat that you got a chance to talk to a professional gen-u-ine rock-ologist for that long. I bet it was a blast, thanks for sharing with us...

Originally Posted by earcutter

BUT speaking of small... those changes really are very, very, small. After I showed her how I hone my razor (yeah I brought a razor lol), she didn't seem to think that it would change enough to make a difference if washed with some kind of soap, but this lady wasn't about absolutes if you know what I mean lol. That said, she was very clear that were you to sand down the rock - you would find it in the exact condition that it was in before the oil.

[excitement / hyperbole on]
Don't give in!! How much do I need to sand it down? Surely we can't answer this "age old" question with a prof's opinion after an hour and a half of just looking at that particular rock and how you use it. Gimme some data! I wanna see me some surface / depth analyses!
[excitement / hyperbole off]

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Thank you David, it pretty much fits with everything else about this hobby "There are very few Absolutes"

I will not have to test one of my slurry stones now

Aww, man, what a let-down! After all this wanting hard data and testing....and now you give up the effort and you're happy to close the argument based on this info? Come on, join me in the desire for her to ask one of her grad students to slave it out in the lab to get us some good readouts! Surely it's more important than whatever they are currently working on.

[QUOTE=Krodor;996312
Aww, man, what a let-down! After all this wanting hard data and testing....and now you give up the effort and you're happy to close the argument based on this info? Come on, join me in the desire for her to ask one of her grad students to slave it out in the lab to get us some good readouts! Surely it's more important than whatever they are currently working on. [/QUOTE]


I hear ya brother, but after this many years and so many YMMV situations with this hobby I have learned everyone pretty much believes what they want anyway..

Myself I will never use anything but Smith's Honing Solution on my Coticule if I ever want more, (Honestly haven't had the urge too mine is a very good finisher) as I know it is water soluble, and it works just fine on my other oil stones.. I will never have to worry of cross contamination that way in the storage trunk, nor the gassy smell of petroleum based honing oils...

Those that want to use oil can now feel assured that with a bit of lapping their Coticules should be right back to normal, even if they get lazy about washing the stone after honing..

Pretty much a successful thread IMO

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Myself I will never use anything but Smith's Honing Solution on my Coticule if I ever want more, (Honestly haven't had the urge too mine is a very good finisher) as I know it is water soluble, and it works just fine on my other oil stones.. I will never have to worry of cross contamination that way in the storage trunk, nor the gassy smell of petroleum based honing oils...

That's as good a reason as any if you ask me!

That said - I think I have made a "friend" in Dr. E. Krodor! Hence, I think I could go back. Especially if I offered her lunch . She's an interesting lady for sure. But as she showed me in her collection of rocks, she mentioned that the college doesn't have diamond cutter, so if you want to know how deep (because I understand it's very little), we'll need a better lab.

For about 2 weeks I used Ballistol in a 1:9 mix on a natural coticule. No noticeable difference, to me; except for honing "feel".

I weighed, and then soaked, the coti in 1:4 mix of Ballistol : water. After a 3 day soak I weighed the coti again; weight was virtually identical to pre-soak weight. I assume that there was very little absorption. The oil rinsed off easily, no surprise since Ballistol emulsifies with water. Since I sold the coticule, not repeatable by me.

Originally Posted by Sticky

For about 2 weeks I used Ballistol in a 1:9 mix on a natural coticule. No noticeable difference, to me; except for honing "feel".

I weighed, and then soaked, the coti in 1:4 mix of Ballistol : water. After a 3 day soak I weighed the coti again; weight was virtually identical to pre-soak weight. I assume that there was very little absorption. The oil rinsed off easily, no surprise since Ballistol emulsifies with water. Since I sold the coticule, not repeatable by me.

Cool! What made you do that if I can ask?