Thread: My New Welsh Slate Stones!!!

Originally Posted by sidmind

Glenn, what's a "Green WHIG"? Never heard that before,

There are 3 of these Welsh hones

Grey(ish)
Purple(ish)
Green(ish)

None have a determined grit

so in the spirit of PHIG I started calling them WHIG's

Welsh Hone of Indeterminate Grit

Many of the guys that collect the real LM's SilkStone Cuttler's Green Dragon's Tongue etc etc had a huge issue with the Un-proved names being given to these..
Me I have a problem with the grit numbers being assigned and gradually being raised, much like other natural stones have been glorified with higher and higher numbers over that last 4 years..

It is bad enough when they are given arbitary numbers to begin with ie: Chinese 12k (People's Hone of Indeterminate Grit) But within 2 short years the e-bay sellers have gradually rasied even those to outlandish levels...

Seems that anything that can't be proved is now fair game to just exaggerate about...


All this info is in those two threads I already linked if you read them you can see the changes happen as those threads unfold..


Again nobody here (on other forums they have) has said the hones don't work, the names and the grits are however highly suspect...

So when posts like this come up

First is the 'Dragon Tongue' second is the Purple Llyn Melynllyn and third is the 'mystery slate'. Hones have an estimated grit of 8-10k, 12-15k and 15k+, respectively.

This is just not "Proven" info, in fact it is very misleading, I don't mean that as a derogatory statement to the OP, because he just got that info from the seller who has gradually changed his listings since these hones got popular... This is just e-bay hype piled on honing hype, and mixed into more e-bay hype...

I agree, the names of the stones are misleading. They should say 'Like Dragon tongue" "like Purple..." etc.

Is there some kind of determining factor in true grit rating of natural stones? Unless they are produced using specific, manufactured, cutting media suspended in a product to produce a verified grit, how do we really know?

Are there any claims or proof of grit of eschers, jnats, thuringians etc?

I apologize if I am sounding combative, that's not my intention.

Educate me please

Originally Posted by brooksie967

I agree, the names of the stones are misleading. They should say 'Like Dragon tongue" "like Purple..." etc.

Is there some kind of determining factor in true grit rating of natural stones? Unless they are produced using specific, manufactured, cutting media suspended in a product to produce a verified grit, how do we really know?

Are there any claims or proof of grit of eschers, jnats, thuringians etc?

I apologize if I am sounding combative, that's not my intention.

Educate me please

you can't determine grit for naturals as they are not made from spherical particles, except coticule AFAIK.
Jnats and Eschers are made from flaky particles so assigning grit for those has no meaning. One can compare edges feeling to a synthetic of some grit but that is about it.

Stop answering my questions with answers that leave me with nothing more to say please Stefan !

Originally Posted by brooksie967

I agree, the names of the stones are misleading. They should say 'Like Dragon tongue" "like Purple..." etc.

Is there some kind of determining factor in true grit rating of natural stones? Unless they are produced using specific, manufactured, cutting media suspended in a product to produce a verified grit, how do we really know?

We don't and there is the problem

Are there any claims or proof of grit of eschers, jnats, thuringians etc?

No, only from these forums, people have a problem with not having a comparative grit rating, and unfortunately the more they like the stone, the higher it goes.. If you look into the archives here on SRP and read those comparisons, they were rather conservative right up until the Shaptons became popular, then we saw 20k Eschers and 50k J-nats



I apologize if I am sounding combative, that's not my intention.

It is not sounding combative, it is that not once did any of us say the stones don't work, we have simply stated that the Grit ratings are highly suspect, and that the names are inaccurate at best, and mis-leading at worst..
Educate me please

Many people have tried many tests to prove Natural grit ratings, heck there are even different scales with Synthetics, many people can't tell you what grit rating a Norton 8k really is...

The only thing when it comes to grit that is "True" is that a Shapton GS 4k is a lower grit then a Shapton GS 8k and a Naniwa SS 10k is a higher grit then a Naniwa SS 5k.. If you even switch lines, within the brands, that can change because of binder and grit type..

This is a weakness in the industry and in Sharpening stones in general, and because of these inaccuracies and lack of proven evidence, the "Hype" numbers just keep rising.. Any e-bay seller can claim what they want, there is no way to prove otherwise, and once the hype starts it just grows... On SRP we keep trying to explain and educate as best as we can, we are simply trying to solve the mysteries of this hobby, and not create more


I hope that makes some sense...

BTW I have the 6x3's also and really like that size, works rather well when working the slurry...

Speaking of the shaptons i've been watching your videos on youtube honing that ERN on the shapton system. Makes me wish i had the $$ to get an entire system like that. I'll have to continue watching them tomorrow and test out some of your techniques on the welsh slates i've got

Originally Posted by brooksie967

Speaking of the shaptons i've been watching your videos on youtube honing that ERN on the shapton system. Makes me wish i had the $$ to get an entire system like that. I'll have to continue watching them tomorrow and test out some of your techniques on the welsh slates i've got

Watch that Pigtail stroke, I tend to use on the naturals with a light slurry, I have put that to very good use on the Welsh Hones.. You can get a beatiful haze finsh that is soooooo even then go to clean water for some finishing X strokes and bring a near mirror to the very edge I have been using the Smith's on the Greenish one to good effect, haven't tried it on the Purplish one yet...

There is a lot of hype on a lot of different stones out there. This set is a lot of fun, but......... The LM actually works well on refreshing and finishing and to date on a couple hundred razors, I have had the best results with 15 weight of blade strokes using very light slurry followed by 10 with just water. Jury is out on the other two. Grits.........Oh yeah.........Grits...............Uh yeah............

The key with all of these stones including the Shaptons, Naniwas and Nortons is simply practice. The more you hone, the better you will get. You don't need anything fancy, but watching your pressure is key.

I have tried all three of these stones with a ton of razors using the One Stone method as well and had the best results so far with a plain nagura and the LM stone. One of the nice things about the naturals is that you can play as much as you want and try so many things. Usually you don't mess up a razor too bad and the worst that happens is that it won't shave and you get to try again.

Have fun

Thanks for adding your 2 cents. Much appreciated! I have yet to see this 'one stone method' but have heard it mentioned. Would really appreciate a link

Originally Posted by Lynn

There is a lot of hype on a lot of different stones out there. This set is a lot of fun, but......... The LM actually works well on refreshing and finishing and to date on a couple hundred razors, I have had the best results with 15 weight of blade strokes using very light slurry followed by 10 with just water. Jury is out on the other two. Grits.........Oh yeah.........Grits...............Uh yeah............

The key with all of these stones including the Shaptons, Naniwas and Nortons is simply practice. The more you hone, the better you will get. You don't need anything fancy, but watching your pressure is key.

I have tried all three of these stones with a ton of razors using the One Stone method as well and had the best results so far with a plain nagura and the LM stone. One of the nice things about the naturals is that you can play as much as you want and try so many things. Usually you don't mess up a razor too bad and the worst that happens is that it won't shave and you get to try again.

Have fun

I have had a similar experience. Out of the 3 stones the Purple LM ended up being the finest finisher out of them all for me.