Thread: What Does it Mean, Taking an Edge too Far?

Originally Posted by DaveW

Pre 1900 razors, what were they made of? On the list of carbon steels, they were one notch above file steel as the best grade of steel. But did they have vanadium carbides? Or were they an attempt at the best crucible process steel?

Bingo give that man a cigar... We barely know some of the hardness factors let alone what they really were alloy wise... So as you hone them you start figuring out what they work best with,, now keep in mind that this is only according to your face unless you happen to do this professionaly and can keep getting feedback from multiple customers... This can sometimes point you in the right direction...
Only a few of the Custom Makers have branched out into "Super Steels" some with less then stellar results, I have honed a few of them..
Some of the Japanese makers have used Tamahagane steel and I have coaxed very nice edges out of them...
The common belief is that Vintage razors were made mostly from simple tool steel, I know many of the custom guys that have tried the newer steels have wandered back to the O1 you might ask them why....

Presume on the O1 because you can harden and temper them very accurately without vacuum heat treatment or stainless steel wraps, etc. It's also easy to hone compared to higher alloy steels, and tends to drop off particles (and in the case of tools, wire edges) at a lower grit.

Every time I see the word tamahagane, I wonder what's actually in a razor. Is it really sand iron that is beaten to remove silica, and then provided carbon from charcoal? In the world of tools, it's well known that many tools that are marked tamahagane are some sort of mass produced carbon steel, and the term is used as a marketing term.

I've seen that iwasaki uses the term tamahagane, and it would be unlikely that he / his shop would abuse it. But I do think based on So Yamashita's comment on his page about actual tamahagane, that its value is collector and marketing and not function. Hitachi white paper steel and the older english and swedish plain steels are so good at taking a great edge at lower grits. I would think they would be a better choice for razors than O1, but they are more expensive, harder to heat treat, and lose temper at a lower temperature.

if the custom makers are using a "super steel", they'd have to sink a lot of money and experimentation into it to get a schedule down, it probably just isn't worth the trouble when O1 makes a very good and predictable razor with very cheap stock.

There are so many variables, that sometimes it's easier just to find something (razor) that works well with something else (stone) and not worry about it. I should be in that category. I have a lot of somethings that work fabulously with other somethings, empirical trumps theoretical because the former is known, I just wish I could resist trying to figure out why when it doesn't change the result.

Originally Posted by gssixgun

... We barely know some of the hardness factors let alone what they really were alloy wise... ...
Only a few of the Custom Makers have branched out into "Super Steels" .....
The common belief is that Vintage razors were made mostly from simple tool steel, I know many of the custom guys that have tried the newer steels have wandered back to the O1 you might ask them why....

Not being a versed in the art of forging steels I can only speculate from what the master of pounding iron pass along.

They consistently mention the time and effort spent learning how to best handle a particular metal. It would seem to be a considerable investment as many of them work on only one or two alloys expecting to get the very most from the material.

Consider straight razors were made in the millions......tens or hundreds of millions. Whatever steel they chose to work the opportunity to refine the results was far richer than any individual or company can hope for today.

From a source forgotten I read one company in upstate NY was finishing as many as 9,000 razors a day. Over a hundred year period that is an enormous amount of development opportunity.

Originally Posted by DaveW

....Snip...

Hitachi white paper steel and the older english and swedish plain steels are so good at taking a great edge at lower grits. I would think they would be a better choice for razors than O1, but they are more expensive, harder to heat treat, and lose temper at a lower temperature.

I'm working on having a couple razors, western ground, done in Hitachi White made for me.
The goal is to have one made in each of the two varieties.
Early days yet, but I look forward to seeing how this will turn out..

[QUOTE=Birnando;.......... I look forward to seeing how this will turn out..[/QUOTE]

I look forward to read your results. I have knives of Hitachi White #1 they are a revelation.

Incredible edges which are quite easy to sharpen and last a long time are the rule. For knives the edge
geometry is responsible for much of the performance. I suspect razors will better demonstrate
the properties of the steel itself.

Originally Posted by jaswarb

... I have knives of Hitachi White #1 they are a revelation.

Incredible edges which are quite easy to sharpen and last a long time are the rule....

Yep, I have a few knives in Hitachi White #1 and #2 as well, and that's the reason for me wanting to see how razors will do with it.
Rest assured, I will post about them as soon as they are made!

Originally Posted by Birnando

Yep, I have a few knives in Hitachi White #1 and #2 as well, and that's the reason for me wanting to see how razors will do with it.
Rest assured, I will post about them as soon as they are made!

I hope they turn out well, if they do they should be superior razors. I love white #1 and white #2.

Originally Posted by jaswarb

From a source forgotten I read one company in upstate NY was finishing as many as 9,000 razors a day. Over a hundred year period that is an enormous amount of development opportunity.

You are correct, that was Genco.

The Hardware review - Google Books

That is pretty cool, I didn't ever see that before about Genco,,, but for some reason I thought Torrey produced the most straight razors overall I could have sworn I read that someplace... Looking

Originally Posted by gssixgun

That is pretty cool, I didn't ever see that before about Genco,,, but for some reason I thought Torrey produced the most straight razors overall I could have sworn I read that someplace... Looking

I have read Torrey produced the most overall but never have found a source able to quote a total. Considering Genco wasn't the biggest manufacturer by any account and factoring the number of factories worldwide...............there are a lot of razors to be accounted for.

Many went to scrap or trash long ago but given the numbers manufactured there must still be millions left.

Just think what the custom makers today might create given the opportunity to sell in these numbers.