Thread: What Does it Mean, Taking an Edge too Far?

Originally Posted by DaveW

Pre 1900 razors, what were they made of? On the list of carbon steels, they were one notch above file steel as the best grade of steel. But did they have vanadium carbides? Or were they an attempt at the best crucible process steel?

I can't find the reference now but a lot of crucible or "cast" steel was exported world wide from Sweden 17th or 18th C .
Dannemora mine was a major producer. The wiki article below mentions "the extremely low levels of sulphur and phosphorus in the ores but also the relatively high manganese content."
Dannemora, Sweden - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I had a Genco vanadium steel razor. Tough one to hone

Is genco and ontario cutlery all coming out of the same place? I have a couple of ontario cutlery razors and I like them a lot. They do seem to respond a lot better to synthetic abrasives, though, and if they are piled full of vanadium carbides, that's no surprise. Nice cheap shavers (at least here in the next state over from where genco was. I see a lot of genco stuff if I run across an antique shop that has razors).

There were quite a few Razor makers right in the Geneva NY area that and Little Valley NY are two of my personal favorite areas for snagging up razors.. I will buy any NY razor that is in good shape without doubt myself but I like those Wicked Sharp edges ... They are able to hold the high grit edges without issues IME

Originally Posted by gssixgun

There were quite a few Razor makers right in the Geneva NY area that and Little Valley NY are two of my personal favorite areas for snagging up razors.. I will buy any NY razor that is in good shape without doubt myself but I like those Wicked Sharp edges ... They are able to hold the high grit edges without issues IME

Growing up in Troy, NY and living in Utica and Syracuse offered me countless opportunities for wonderful finds from these places. Unfortunately, that was long before my interest in straights.

I have the idea that a few weekends there, even now, would present wonderful adventures and finds.

--james

It's always been my assumption that someone knew to honing is much more likely to under hone a razor (moving to higher grits too early). I think the fear of over honing is greatly exaggerated, and in some cases can be the culprit of moving to higher grits too early.

Originally Posted by xMackx

It's always been my assumption that someone knew to honing is much more likely to under hone a razor (moving to higher grits too early). I think the fear of over honing is greatly exaggerated, and in some cases can be the culprit of moving to higher grits too early.

This is interesting and consistent with what a number of people have advised me.

Thanks.

--james

Originally Posted by gssixgun

The term and it's brother "Over Honed" have been so mis-used that thay no longer mean anything...

To put it as simply as possible,,, I'll give you some numbers (not mine)

The edge will start to slice through hair at about .50 Microns (we do that at 1k) and depending on the the Grind, Geometry and Steel a Straight razor can get down to about .38 Microns.. that's it, period you get to mess with about .12 Microns of metal between 1k and whatever K

As one person has put it on here "I can hone just fine, knowing when to stop is my problem" I always liked that saying
longer...

Glen, are you saying the actual cutting EDGE begins at .50 microns and the edge is only physically capable of .38? Or is beyond .38 is too frail?
If so, it it possible to go too far on the 1k ? The reason I ask is I spend most of my time there.

What Im trying to say is, is this the mythical "too sharp=harsh" scenario?

My edges are consistently very sharp, sometimes harsh, but mostly short lived.
I hope im not stroking them to death!

\-/ .38 microns is good and \/ under .38 is bad?

Pardon my repetition, just making sure I understand fully.

Eric.

Eric that is exactly what Voerhaven was saying,,, His investigations into razors edges, really put the light on for me when it comes to the technicalities of the edges...
Keep in mind honestly this all really means nothing in the grand scheme of things, the razor either shaves close and comfortable or it doesn't.. These discussions sometime do help point out problems and logic behind what we do..

When we all did those experimemts with the 1k shaves, and slowly brought the edges into spec as we worked our way up in grit it pretty much backed up what he forund under the Microscopes too...

The 1k can rip an edge apart and cause actual burrs if they are used incorrectly, but once that bevel is set and all the rough parts are smoothed out we know we can actually get a shave maybe not as smooth as we want but we can shave...

What I found as a surprise was that there was so little real difference between the spot where the edge starts to cut hair and what we consider to be maxed out.. Also Voerhaven said about .38 Microns was where the edge could go, many might not even be able to hit that what he was saying that that is as far as it can go there isn't any more and that limit is determined by the steel and the grind..

Very nice explanation.

Alright, Im going to try a new "less is more" approach and see if that helps.
Thanks Glen.

Eric.