Gentlemen, thanks for all of the responses! I will go through all the post and take notes, I read them all just didn't write anything down. So from what I gather, the Chinese 12k aka PHIG? can be a hit or miss. My plan as of right now are to re-lap it with wet/dry sand paper, god help me......and try a different blade, setting the spike aside for now. No pressure on this one, also look,listen, and feel. I did watch Glens video's and Lynn's fro bevel setting too. Re-lapped my 4k/8k and touched up 5 of my users last night and stopped at the 8k, but no bevel setting last night. I have one other question, if my PHIG turns out to be a turd, what would tell me that, other than I can't tell any improvement? And what finishing stone would you all suggest that plays nice with 90% of blades? Thanks again! looking forward to your comments good/bad