Thread: Best progression suggestions for Shaptons...

Originally Posted by Str8Shooter

As Glen talked about, every razor is different. I don't have any set pattern to how many laps I home at a certain grit. I have learned to go by how the razor feels on the stones and how it looks under my loop. I also don't always use the 16 and 30k. I don't stop at just the 8K though. For me, my naniwa 12k followed by the CrOx on balsa is fantastic on my softer older steel near wedge w&b's etc. they don't seem to like the high grit shaptons.
Actually a more accurate statement is I don't like them off the shaptons.
The only true constant is I always do at least two passes over the CrOx pasted balsa strop. These are always VERY light passes.

The observation you should take from this is most people that I know that hone go by feel. I woulf hazard a guess that everyone that hones alot will tell you that they dont always get it to "pop" first time every time. Some razors are stuborn like that. I am by no means in the same league as Lynn or Glen but I have honed my fair share of razors and know what works for me.
One other thing is that some people like the feel off a 12k PHIG others the naniwa some one else might prefer the 30K shaptons. Everyone is different.

More then one way to shave a cat.

ok - so I've been working on my favorite razor - a Dovo best stainless.

What would you suggest for this razor?

i think if I pick one at a time rather than working on different ones it will be better.

im learning to hone "by feel" - I usually stop and go to the next stone when I get that sticky feeling on the hone...

thanks!

john

Originally Posted by ocelot27

ok - so I've been working on my favorite razor - a Dovo best stainless.

What would you suggest for this razor?

i think if I pick one at a time rather than working on different ones it will be better.

im learning to hone "by feel" - I usually stop and go to the next stone when I get that sticky feeling on the hone...

thanks!

john

When I have a new razor I will try a few different things. The stainless for me will usually take a bit more to "hit" then a carbon blade. On my stainless Dovo I run it up to 16K Shap then about 5 passes on CrOx. 30K Shap does not feel good to me and comes off as harsh. Again, this is for my liking and YMMV. I know some people that 30K is always they're target level.

For me I think that the way CrOx vs Diamond and or shap stones grain structure is effects the micro serrations left by the hones. I do not have a microscope to verify this but I have seen and heard verification to some sort similar to this.
I have to defer to Glen on this as he DEFINATELY knows more about it then I do.
Glen?

This is one of the fun things and nuances' of honing that I really enjoy and love to talk about with other honing "geeks". The other cool fact is that it has risen the bar on my knife obsession sharpness level to where now friends ask to see my daily carry(edc) blade to inspect the edge. LOL For Christmas gifts most of them have me hone their fave knife!!!

Originally Posted by Str8Shooter

The other cool fact is that it has risen the bar on my knife obsession sharpness level to where now friends ask to see my daily carry(edc) blade to inspect the edge. LOL For Christmas gifts most of them have me hone their fave knife!!!

I have gotten where I have to disclose that I am not responsible for their cutting themselves, many aren't used to a real edge...

Originally Posted by Str8Shooter

When I have a new razor I will try a few different things. The stainless for me will usually take a bit more to "hit" then a carbon blade. On my stainless Dovo I run it up to 16K Shap then about 5 passes on CrOx. 30K Shap does not feel good to me and comes off as harsh. Again, this is for my liking and YMMV. I know some people that 30K is always they're target level.

For me I think that the way CrOx vs Diamond and or shap stones grain structure is effects the micro serrations left by the hones. I do not have a microscope to verify this but I have seen and heard verification to some sort similar to this.
I have to defer to Glen on this as he DEFINATELY knows more about it then I do.
Glen?

This is one of the fun things and nuances' of honing that I really enjoy and love to talk about with other honing "geeks". The other cool fact is that it has risen the bar on my knife obsession sharpness level to where now friends ask to see my daily carry(edc) blade to inspect the edge. LOL For Christmas gifts most of them have me hone their fave knife!!!

Cool bones.

I have a balsa strop on the way - going to try stopping at 16K and do 5 laps on the balsa with CrO...

I also have a Ninawa 12K - any utility throwing that into the progression?

Funny thing is, my best edge is on my Hart Steel razor which has a smiling blade and requires a rolling stroke to hone - go figure.

-john

The Naniwa 12K and Shapton 16K use a different grit rating system, but are basically the same particle size. People who tried both could not distinguish the edge finished on either, so I think it does not fit in the Shapton setup at all.

Originally Posted by Laurens

The Naniwa 12K and Shapton 16K use a different grit rating system, but are basically the same particle size. People who tried both could not distinguish the edge finished on either, so I think it does not fit in the Shapton setup at all.

naniwa and shaptons are not PHIG's. Not sure where you got this info. They use a different type of material for stone make up but IMHO and many others here they provide a noticeable difference in sharpness levels.

Originally Posted by Str8Shooter

naniwa and shaptons are not PHIG's. Not sure where you got this info. They use a different type of material for stone make up but IMHO and many others here they provide a noticeable difference in sharpness levels.

If I may, it seems you two are discussing two different things.

What I understood Laurens saying is that the Naniwa SS12K and the Shapton glass 16K are of similar grits.
The Chinese natural known to some as the Guangxi or PHIG is a totally different entity being a natural.

I agree with Laurens, the 16K from Shapton and the Naniwa SS12K are pretty similar in what finish they can give a razor.
The differences in rating from the various makers are well known.
A good example of this is the Shapton pro 15/12K
Sold in their domestic market it is sold as a 12K, but when sold overseas, they are rated as a 15K
I have used both, and can't for the life of me see or feel even the slightest of difference.
Basically, the only diff is the rating/labelling.

All I use are the Shapton GS series hones. I have several different sets, but really like the Shaptons. The razor itself, the grind and the steel play a role in how much honing is needed. I too like and use the 2k. I also bought it instead of the 1k. Normally, I use the 4 and 8. I have the 16, not the 30, but it is available for me to try (Thanks Shooter) I prefer to use a natural after the 8k, be it Escher, Nakayama or a Charnley. Lately, I'm using the Suehiro Gokumyo 20k to finish.
It leaves not only a keen edge, but a smooth one.

I wouldn't worry so much about HHT. It's fun to mess around with it. Shave with it. Learn to interpret how the blade feels on your thumb. I know when my blade is sticky sharp, or how sticky it is, I'm going to get a killer shave. The only time I may shave some arm hair is when I'm setting a bevel, after that, I go by feel.

Good Luck...

P.S. I'm also the designated knife sharpening guy at work. I always get the "Oh, he's the razor guy" or "use his knife"..LoL

Originally Posted by Str8Shooter

naniwa and shaptons are not PHIG's. Not sure where you got this info. They use a different type of material for stone make up but IMHO and many others here they provide a noticeable difference in sharpness levels.

I don't see your connection to PHIGs? As to where I got my info, there are a few threads where the Naniwa 12K and Shapton 16K are compared, such as http://straightrazorpalace.com/hones/68604-naniwa-16k-anyone.html#post775044 and http://straightrazorpalace.com/honin...apton-16k.html.

I find zero comparison between the Shapton GS 16k and the Naniwa SS 12k

Feel while honing not even close
Scratch patterns not even close
Reaction to the differences in the steel not even close
Feel on "MY" face close but anything over 8k is close

Different binder different cutting grit, yeah sorry but not close in my book when we are getting into the finer points of this hobby


How does it shave is NOT part of the finer points discussion IMHO