Thread: 2 cents worth a nickel

I would call that jumping to conclusions. I have yet to hone my first razor but I stay humble till I have done so. I read about many people struggling with honing in the beginning and I believe there is a reason for that.

I'd much rather hone a 3" razor than a 12" yanagiba but that's my experience in one & lack of experience in the other.
On the other foot I know a very experienced knife guy who won't touch razors.

I would agree tho that experience in one may give you a good start in learning the other.

Originally Posted by robellison01

Have you tried honing a razor?

actually yea that's why I put up the post.....everyone made valid points. the edge has to be in far better condition than on a knife and even a slight miss stroke on the hone will make you start over.

even bevel, no chips on the edge. what else is there?

Originally Posted by WW243

It is not important whether you win or lose, until you lose. jsmiff, take a look on these forums in the honing section and section on hones.....step one: humility, step two, read.

but what if I get different answers in different forums......smh

Originally Posted by jsmiff

but what if I get different answers in different forums......smh

It takes some understanding. Look for the underlying principle. e.g. Some say elbows up, I keep mine down but I hone standing ,not seated.. The ergonomics are not the principle. The principle is keep the edge & spine in contact with the hone.

Originally Posted by onimaru55

It takes some understanding. Look for the underlying principle. e.g. Some say elbows up, I keep mine down but I hone standing ,not seated.. The ergonomics are not the principle. The principle is keep the edge & spine in contact with the hone.

thanks for the honest answer. I guess im over simplifying honing......and some people don't like that.

It's good top simplify but the honing process is not always easy.
As previously mentioned. 'People say honing is easy, and it is...right up until it isn't...'

Originally Posted by onimaru55

It takes some understanding. Look for the underlying principle. e.g. Some say elbows up, I keep mine down but I hone standing ,not seated.. The ergonomics are not the principle. The principle is keep the edge & spine in contact with the hone.

I think that the principle of honing is easy. It is when you introduce the human body/mind that it becomes difficult.

Originally Posted by kwlfca

An edge for a razor needs to be closer to perfect than on a knife.

I couldn't agree more with Kyle. I wish my knives were as sharp as the dullest straight razor I have ever used.

There is a limit to how sharp a knife can be made; the maximum keenness is limited by the steel, the geometry, the hones... If we measured the edge width with an SEM, that limit is a fraction of a micron, maybe 200 or 300nm.

It turns out that a good straight razor edge needs to have an edge width of around 100nm and we produce this with a grit that is about ten times larger; a good finishing hone has a grit size around 1 micron (1000nm). So, I would argue that we want to produce an edge that is essentially sharper than the limit of (normal) sharpening. It can be done, but it require skill and experience. Of course you can scrape the whiskers off your face with that 200 or 300nm edge if you want.

Originally Posted by fuzzychops

I couldn't agree more with Kyle. I wish my knives were as sharp as the dullest straight razor I have ever used.

There is a limit to how sharp a knife can be made; the maximum keenness is limited by the steel, the geometry, the hones... If we measured the edge width with an SEM, that limit is a fraction of a micron, maybe 200 or 300nm.

It turns out that a good straight razor edge needs to have an edge width of around 100nm and we produce this with a grit that is about ten times larger; a good finishing hone has a grit size around 1 micron (1000nm). So, I would argue that we want to produce an edge that is essentially sharper than the limit of (normal) sharpening. It can be done, but it require skill and experience. Of course you can scrape the whiskers off your face with that 200 or 300nm edge if you want.

I disagree, I can make a knife as sharp as a razor. It would make a pretty poor knife edge though. The same as a knife makes a pretty poor razor.

We shouldn't compare apples to oranges.