Thread: Sheffield or Solingen the honing difference?

I'm sure that many parts came together to form the whole, so short of model books and company accounts (which seem to be mysteriously short on the ground) we can only speak in broad outlines and then again, only for certain people and models.

The first hurdle is that not all razor makers made their own steel. Wade & Butcher did, Christopher Johnson, Thomas Firth & Sons, Greaves, Adam Padley, Pickslays, Stodart, Samuel Osborne, William & Samuel Butcher at the Philadelphia Works, T R Ellins, etc. etc.

The second hurdle is the longevity of some companies and different steel formulations.

However, we can ascertain that upon Benjamin Huntsman's re-discovery of crucible (wootz) steel and its marketing to France (and then back to the UK - Sheffield refused it at first, hence it being marketed in France), that Acier Fondue is Huntsman's recipe. Other ones that are notable include the early alloying of silver with steel by Stodart (whose logo was a mark for wootz) and Faraday and marketed by Pickslays and others. Adam Padley worked alongside these for a while, but set up on his own, using silver steel. The alloy seems to have come from silver mines in South America, and the name 'Peruvian' was adopted, so by a process of elimination we can trace that to being a silver and steel alloy first formulated by Stodart and Faraday in the early 1800s.

Although taken by some as marketing ploys, the use of, for instance, 'Fine India Steel' tells us that this was a crucible steel redolent of wootz. The early damascus blades by well-known and reputable makers are along the same guidelines as fine india steel, although certainly there are a multitude of lesser brands that used the name willy-nilly.

All we know about the earlier W&Bs are that they are among the very softest of steels (around 59 on the rockwell scale) which was the miniumum hardness set by Solingen Statutes. Much later we find the outstanding Puma razors, still made of fine sheffield steel, but having a rockwell of around 60-1, which is very high indeed.

So Jimmy, the short answer is no - we don't know!

Regards,
Neil

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Keep in mind that technically speaking Swedish ore is not the same as Swedish steel...

That is almost the same thing we have experienced with the England football team - forging a team of many of the finest proponents from home abroad, does not guarantee that they will play football for us worth a damn...

Regards,
Neil

Originally Posted by DaveW

...First stainless was from ore that was loaded with nickel or something similar, wasn't it? I can't remember where it was from, but not germany or england.

While we might very well describe some of the earlier (1800s - 1900s) 'surgical' steels as stainless because of the alloying elements (phosphates, chromium, nickel, etc) they contained, we have to recognise the invention as belonging to the 20th century, and its birthplace as Sheffield.

Harry Brearley was employed as a boy aged 12 by Thomas Firth & Sons, the same crucible steel forge that had employed his father. Firth & Sons had upgraded him to a lab assistant in his 20s and sent him away to college to learn his trade more fully.

In 1901 he left Firth & Sons for a while to work at Kayser Ellisons works, another fine english steel producer. A lot of Firths ore came from Riga and Harry experimented for a while with this. Later, Harry was to spend a great deal of time at Firths research labs, particularly to evolve a steel that eroded less than that commonly used for arms parts. He was not trying to make a stainless steel, rather he was more concerned about the amount of chromium and carbon that went into the alloy.

In 1913 he came up trumps and announced his new 'rustless' steel. Firths were less enamoured of the alloy, indeed it needed expert handling and the first two batches sent to various Sheffield cutlery firms were deemed a failure.

Harry wouldn't give up though, and oversaw the forging of another batch by a small firm called Moseley at the Portland Works. The name was changed fron rustless to stainless and the product took off, only to be halted in its tracks by the onset of WW1 and delayed another decade or so.

The criterion of stainless was a minimum 10.5% chromium cont that allowed the easily corroded low carbon iron steel to form a passive coating of oxide which resisted attack.

Regards,
Neil

I have one Sheffield to compare; a Wolstenholm pipe razor. It is a full hollow. It, coincidentally is the smoothest razor I own. I don't have many to compare and didn't think much of it until I noticed this thread.