Thread: bevel setting & honing a wedge?

Originally Posted by BobH

Photos would be a very good idea as true wedges are extremely rare to non existent. If you can lay a straight edge across the blade on your "true edge" from spine to edge. Then check and see if you can see light under the straight edge. If you see light, even a small amount, chances are it is not a "true wedge". Check out the definition true wedge here The straight razor - Straight Razor Place Library .

Bob

True wedges would be very rare. with the equipment they had in those days I wonder what the + or - would be when something was made. Yes if a True straight edge is placed across a true flat surface then there would be no light but then again in this world how many things are absolutely true. I have a Joseph Rodgers wedge shaped razor that is all but unused now I don't know whether to call it a wedge or hollow ground. You've got me thinking and that hurts.

Originally Posted by rhensley

True wedges would be very rare. with the equipment they had in those days I wonder what the + or - would be when something was made. Yes if a True straight edge is placed across a true flat surface then there would be no light but then again in this world how many things are absolutely true. I have a Joseph Rodgers wedge shaped razor that is all but unused now I don't know whether to call it a wedge or hollow ground. You've got me thinking and that hurts.

you also have to take into consideration the almost 2 hours I spent removing stains and scratches from the face of the blade. It sure isn't going to be flat anymore. Probably a .004-.008 gap by now. guess I'll bring my calipers home to.

[QUOTE=mrsell63;1490905]Here is a J Rodgers wedge from well back into the 1800s. I laid a 6 inch hook rule across the width of the blade. There is about .025" of air space under the rule which makes the blade just about a full wedge.

Yes, that sliver of light makes it a "near wedge" not a "true wedge". Oth it is what people generally, but technically wrongly, refer to as a wedge.

Bob

[QUOTE=BobH;1490922]

Originally Posted by mrsell63

Here is a J Rodgers wedge from well back into the 1800s. I laid a 6 inch hook rule across the width of the blade. There is about .025" of air space under the rule which makes the blade just about a full wedge.

Yes, that sliver of light makes it a "near wedge" not a "true wedge". Oth it is what people generally, but technically wrongly, refer to as a wedge.

Bob

So truly most wverything, except for the hallowed few, should all be concidered "near wedge"?
Im sure in the 1800's, wedge razor had to be ground flat, and possibly with some inconsistencies. Maybe thats how the near wedge line was created.

Originally Posted by lethalgraphix

Im sure in the 1800's, wedge razor had to be ground flat, and possibly with some inconsistencies. Maybe thats how the near wedge line was created.

Think about the issues of honing a true wedge.. you would be honing the entire side of the razor or you would have to lift the spine...

To be honest I have most recently begun to think that any of the "True" wedges that we actually find out there that haven't been worn into it might be Factory Blems that missed the final grinder

We were talking about his a few weeks back and I suggested that someone lay the edge of a business card across the bevel and see if what you had was actually a "big wheel grind." That is how I check so see where the subtle hollow and convex grinds on a kitchen knife have shaped up. That may have had flat platens in those factories back in the day, but I haven't see a picture of one that I can recall. I have 36 and 72 inch "diameter " platens that simulate those very shallow grinds that you would see on knives coming out of Sheffield and Solingen back in the day. [QUOTE=BobH;1490922]

Originally Posted by mrsell63

Here is a J Rodgers wedge from well back into the 1800s. I laid a 6 inch hook rule across the width of the blade. There is about .025" of air space under the rule which makes the blade just about a full wedge.

Yes, that sliver of light makes it a "near wedge" not a "true wedge". Oth it is what people generally, but technically wrongly, refer to as a wedge.

Bob

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Think about the issues of honing a true wedge.. you would be honing the entire side of the razor or you would have to lift the spine...

To be honest I have most recently begun to think that any of the "True" wedges that we actually find out there that haven't been worn into it might be Factory Blems that missed the final grinder

I would wonder if a TRUE wedge would have actually acquired that shape from hand work after the primary very shallow hollow grinding on the big wheels? I know from watching a Bill Moran video, that you can get any shape you want on a big wheel. He essentially reproduced the very subtle convex grind of the Japanese swords starting off with a 12 inch emery wheel and cutting a series of little flats into the blade and then blending them. With that said, I t would be a VERY labor intensive operation even in a very early industrial setting, perhaps more time consuming that a DEEP full hollow, which we know you can do on small powered wheels.

[QUOTE=lethalgraphix;1490933]

Originally Posted by BobH

So truly most wverything, except for the hallowed few, should all be concidered "near wedge"?
Im sure in the 1800's, wedge razor had to be ground flat, and possibly with some inconsistencies. Maybe thats how the near wedge line was created.

Yes, most would be "near wedges". I think you would get a pretty big argument over that from Neil Miller on how razors were ground in Sheffield in the 1800s. Me, at this point I don't really care as people tend to call everything from quarter hollows up wedges.

Bob

My guess is that the advantage of a little bit of hollow would have been obvious from the start and that the amount of hollow was limited by the size of the wheel. Even a 10" diameter wheel will result in a pretty flat grind ~ .015" chord height on a 6/8 razor.

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Think about the issues of honing a true wedge.. you would be honing the entire side of the razor or you would have to lift the spine...

To be honest I have most recently begun to think that any of the "True" wedges that we actually find out there that haven't been worn into it might be Factory Blems that missed the final grinder

Here is the best I can do with 2 hands, a camera, a straight edge, and a somewhat dull razor. And still focus.
It's pretty darn close.




I put a mic on some notebook paper and got .004896. So just under .005" stripped it into a 1/4" wide strip and I was able to get it between the blade and straight edge with some pushing and buckling.