Thread: "Sharpness" - is it a bevel issue?

Originally Posted by Damo

Shave test is tonight! I realised I didn't have a shaving brush with me at my girlfriend's house

It cut the tomato pretty effortlessly. I just noticed that wee spot where it wasn't quite as easy. Interestingly, I didn't notice that spot after the 1K hone. I noticed when I repeated the tomato test at the end of the progression. Either I missed it on the first test tomato (more likely), or I did something to that part of the edge during progression/stropping

Oh ooops! Shouldn't have done the tomato test at the end, especially not after stropping. It's only relevant after the bevel setter. I thought that was clear from the video... it won't hurt the edge anyway (I am inviting trouble by saying this haha), other than risk of putting patina on it is now more realistic.

What's more concerning is that the razor struggled, no matter how minor, at the end of the progression. Let's see how the shave goes... it will be clear after the first stroke I guess

Damo:
It sounds to me like you are using the tomato test when you are finished honing the razor, this test is for bevel setting at the lower grits stages only.
I would not be using this test at all after I finished honing an edge to completion. The hanging hair test (HHT) and then the shave test is all that is recommended once we finish our edge. There are others but those are the tests I use.
Of coarse if I misunderstood your post--------- never mind.

Hey, use the tomato test if you like, but understand its limitations.

It does not tell you if the whole bevel is set, if you have honed all the way to the edge, if the bevels are completely flat, if you have removed all the 1k stria, or if you have a chip, micro or larger.

It does tell you, if you have an edge capable of cutting tomatoes, a good test for a kitchen knife, but…

There are many test for bevel setting, and I use several, TPT, AHT, Visual and Shave. I am still surprised how often I go back to the stones, to tweak an edge, after a Shave test… the only one that matters.

When you have a bench full of razors, some not my own and stones and other honing paraphernalia, the last thing I need on the bench is something that produces acid, lying around likely to cause a problem. I am trying to avoid problems…

Develop a fool proof bevel setting test or tests and use them.

So, like the paper guy… if it works for you, go for it…

Originally Posted by Steve56

If it did not cut the tomato skn effortlessly, the bevel is likely not properly set.

The nay-sayers win the vote!!! Unfortunately it did not shave as I would have liked, as you all quite rightly predicted.
Its a process. The first time I put a razor on the hones it felt completely alien. The second time I just enjoyed myself. The third time I felt like I was getting somewhere. Fourth time.....
Frank, I had realised that the tomato was just supposed to be for bevel setting, but I was curious to see how it might differ after progression was completed. I guess I missed that spot the first time round.
I'll keep you posted if I think I manage to set a bevel the next time around

Hello,

I am resurrecting this thread. Finally, I am post post graduate exams, and have a bit more time in the evenings to while away in front of my stones. Determined to crack this bevel setting. I have a USB scope (veho x200), and a x10 loupe with good resolution. I have been reading lots of threads, and plan to attempt a bevel set using a 3K naniwa over the weekend. I aim to post up some pictures in order to get feedback from you - if you would be kind enough to help!
I was wondering if someone would be kind enough to link me to a particular thread - there is one called "second attempt at honing" or along those lines, which I am having difficulty in finding using the search bar. I believe, like me, they decided to have a second crack at honing using a scope and wanted to read their experiences and feedback.
Finally, I am just having a play this morning with the microscope - here is a screengrab of a non shave ready wapi under the scope with oil on the blade. Would this be an acceptable type of picture for you to look at my edge after bevel setting? Do I need more magnification for you to be able to comment, or is this sufficient?
Appreciate the feedback when we get started!

No, that is 40 or 60X, go all the other way on the focus knob to the higher power, 200x in your case and focus on just the bevel, (much closer almost touching the razor) The Veho’s have two powers, at each end of the focus spectrum, low and high.

The threads you are talking about are, “Second try Honing, Is this Microchipping and Should I tackle this difficult Challenge.

Ok, got it. That took some playing around with to get the focus in at that level, but I can do that now. OK tomorrow then, I will take a razor to the 3k stone and post some results. Not planning on doing any circling methods, just x strokes all the way (I appreciate that it will take longer). Thank you for the links, much appreciated

Circles work well for removing material, because you are cross grain honing, much like sanding. After you have removed the material you want, as in bevel setting, then use X strokes to smooth out the bevel stria and straighten the edge.

A 3k should set the bevel fine. Just look at the edge to make sure the bevels are meeting fully. Put some ink on the bevels to make sure you are honing to the edge. Ink is cheap use it often.

And tape the spine with 2 layers of tape to set the bevel, you can drop down to one layer after the bevel is set, but you will protect the spine.

Beginning with post 32, of the (Second Try at Honing thread), the OP posted photos of the edge and what it looks like when it is not set, yet. Post 51 shows a fully set bevel. 95 percent of honing is setting the bevel, Fully.

So take your time and make sure it is fully set.

Picture heavy warning.
That was a fun, but slightly frustrating afternoon. Going to walk away from it until tomorrow morning and have another go. Below are some pictures.
First lesson, don't use a permanent marker...I've got some ink I can't get off the blade!!!

The first picture is a general picture taken with the edge dulled on glass

The next three pics are with the edge leading TOWARDS me on the 3K stone - heel, middle and toe respectively