Thread: Hone of the Day

Originally Posted by DaveW

Bad if reloading and breathing vapor, looks relatively innocent otherwise, right?

I do know several people who cast their own bullets and who now don't because they had high lead levels. I always thought it might have been because of handling the bullets, but it looks like they likely breathed it.

They did something wrong.!!
I've literally melted hundreds of pounds if not tons of lead since my teens.
I've also worked for a fishing tackle manufacturer, where melting and pouring lead was one of my job duties.

No heavy metal poisoning here.!

We're comparing a dust that is an irritant, but that has no link to cancer, to a solid (the lead) assuming it stays as a solid and is not ingested. If any dust becomes airborne or it's ingested by touching and then eating (which I suppose could happen if you were handling the lead and then eating something later), it's a different story. I know people who have had acute lead toxicity (not from shaving, of course), but I don't know anyone who has ever been irritated by CrO III. Here's a comparison of lead's effects:

Hazard Statements (GHS-US) : May form combustible dust concentrations in air
H302+H332 - Harmful if swallowed or if inhaled
H350 - May cause cancer
H360 - May damage fertility or the unborn child
H372 - Causes damage to organs through prolonged or repeated exposure
H400 - Very toxic to aquatic life
H410 - Very toxic to aquatic life with long lasting effects
Precautionary Statements (GHS-US) : P201 - Obtain special instructions before use.
P202 - Do not handle until all safety precautions have been read and understood.
P260 - Do not breathe dust.
P264 - Wash hands, forearms, and other exposed areas thoroughly after handling.
P270 - Do not eat, drink or smoke when using this product.
P271 - Use only outdoors or in a well-ventilated area.
P273 - Avoid release to the environment.
P280 - Wear protective gloves, protective clothing, eye protection, face protection,
respiratory protection.
Other Hazards Not Contributing to the Classification: Exposure may aggravate those with pre-existing eye, skin, or respiratory
conditions. May form combustible dust concentrations in air. Attention! - Contains lead. Exposure may aggravate individuals with
pre-existing skin, kidney, liver, and pulmonary disorders.

(that is for airborne lead. I have no clue what makes it airborne, though, I'll admit - aside from bullet casters melting it into ingots and casting with it - that definitely makes airborne vapors. Does any of it get airborne if you smear it on a strop and then strop? I have no idea. Certainly if all you do is pick up a bar, and put it down, and then go wash your hands, there's not much to worry about).

Here's the narrative for CrO III from fisher scientific (as a dust, I don't know of any other form - a wax bar of cro III would certainly be a lot less harmful than a lead bar):

Warning! May cause allergic skin reaction. May cause eye, skin, and respiratory tract irritation. Hygroscopic (absorbs moisture from the air).
Target Organs: None.


Potential Health Effects
Eye: Dust may cause mechanical irritation.
Skin: May cause skin irritation. May cause an allergic reaction in certain individuals.
Ingestion: Ingestion of large amounts may cause gastrointestinal irritation.
Inhalation: May cause respiratory tract irritation. Chromium (III) oxide is poorly absorbed into the body and, therefore, exists mostly as a "nuisance" dust.
Chronic: Prolonged or repeated skin contact may cause sensitization dermatitis and possible destruction and/or ulceration. Repeated inhalation may cause chronic bronchitis. A review of studies conducted over 100 years showed no conclusive evidence for a cancer hazard among workers exposed to aerosols formed by chromium metal or Chromium (III) compounds. The International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC) has concluded that there is inadequate evidence in humans or experimental animals for the carcinogenicity of Chromium (III) compounds. The overall evaluation concluded that Chromium (III) compounds are not classifiable as to their carcinogenicity to humans.

I would guess that the people getting sensitized to it (as a woodworker, I'm drawing some conclusions based on that dust, except saw dust is probably more harmful and more quickly to sensitize - and is also a known carcinogen in chronic exposure) would be those working with it every day, which is what the rest of the narrative suggests.

I don't use either on a day to day basis, just stones, a strop and a vintage waxed linen. re: the croIII, though, you can breathe some of the dust without harm, you can eat it without harm (except in large quantities as mentioned above - it would be expensive to eat, anyway!), and the only harm that occurs through repeated exposure appears to be temporary irritation.

Lead is a low risk, known carcinogen that poses a risk through long term ingestion/inhalation really.
I worked in a chemical plant for years making vinyl. Lead was a big ingredient in the low temp wire and cable industry.
50-100lb bags of pure lead powder dumped into 15ft long blenders and mixed vigorously,,batchers would be covered in dust head to toe, respirators a must.
Mandatory yearly blood tests to check lead levels. Lead in blood levels below a certain threshold, good to go. Too high, off the batch floor for 6 months till the levels lowered through bladder and kidney functions.
Had some guys intentionally wear their masks wrong to get high enough levels to get out of batching for 6 months! Intentionally poisoning themselves to avoid the hot jobs in the summer.
Crox falls into the same category of heavy weight/low risk.
Stuff is 5 times heavier than water and pretty tough to make a dust cloud of any significance to your health. Would need to have a blender full of dried powder, running at full with the lid off to generate enough air born material to get into your system. And it would settle out within feet of the blender again so you'd have to really, really try to suck that stuff in..
Precautions do help, but really, low risk items in the grand scheme of life's little dangers.

Airborne lead is usually found in paint, and one of the main reasons behind inhalation of lead.

At any rate, I worry (in theory, I'm more of the belief that you can do things that are a little unhealthful from time to time and not worry about any of it, because we are all terminal!!) more about the potential of lead than CrO III. Not as a single bar, but in the case where you handle any amount of it (as in waste in a bucket, you move it around, you get some dust). As a woodworker, I don't worry much about sawdust even though there's a definitive link to NPG cancer. The link is drawn for certain woods and people who are exposed to high amounts of the dust every day over a long period of time (perhaps decades).

You should see the goofy knee-jerk reaction on the woodworking forums to a cyclone salesman who ran around with a particle counter, and used bright red bold text to convince most people that they were practically working inside a nuclear reactor when woodworking, and that they should buy particle counters and continue to spend money on dust extraction in their shop, and filtration until they didn't register anything on the particle counter. I'm a life long asthmatic, and I find that goofy (i can tell when it's an irritant problem a whole lot sooner than most). People bought it hook, line and sinker, even when they're the types who do most of their woodworking at the keyboard, if you know what I mean (as in 10 parts talking about it on a forum, 1 part doing it in a shop - if they had a recipe). He went so far as to tell us that if we left the dust in our shop, but not airborne, that we could still track it into our house on our shoes and it would eventually become a toxin for someone there. ("I'm just doing this as a service, I'm not making any money" was his statement. Shortly after, he started selling expensive kits to make dust cyclones. It's still a political topic on those forums, and I'm still doing woodworking as an asthmatic with nothing more than a mask, a fan, a couple of vacuums and a door that opens to let the dust out if it really gets to be a problem).

(I am not being totally truthful - there is one situation where chromium oxide causes immediate damage: If you spill it somewhere that isn't a non-porous even surface, you will have a mess that you'll wish you didn't have).

Originally Posted by outback

Airborne lead is usually found in paint, and one of the main reasons behind inhalation of lead.

That's how two of the people I know got it, but unlike most of the FHA horror stories, they got acute toxicity applying it, and not in breathing dust from chipping paint or eating the chips.

The other two that I can think of got high lead levels from casting bullets (one as an amateur, and one guy was doing it semi-professionally - both were taking ventilation precautions and wearing rubber glues), and their doctors told them they were done doing that due to unacceptable lead levels in their blood.

Originally Posted by outback

Airborne lead is usually found in paint, and one of the main reasons behind inhalation of lead.

Nothin' better than paint chips and dip!

Mote people are being poisoned by a McDonalds burger than by lead, but all the stuff around us in some way shape or form seems to be bad for you, don't deny that lead can be bad for you in the right conditions, but so can drywall dust, insulation fibers, pollution in the air how about radioactivity? Sun rays. You have a far greater chance of dying in a car wreck. Are you going to quit driving? This reminds me f the arguments about using WD40 on razors, your going to die! Way I see it we all die, and the timing is not up to you, unless you stick a gun in your mouth and check out. But guys it's just a strop and no one is making you do it. It was a conversation between me and Mike that we like our lead loaded strops, not us trying to poison the world. I reasonably don't think it's safe to even use a straight, but I still do it. Carry in guys please stay in your homes today cause UV Rays will kill you. Tc

Originally Posted by tcrideshd

Carry in guys please stay in your homes today cause UV Rays will kill you. Tc

That's funny..

Were all living on borrowed time, its what you do with it while your here. I've stared into the face of death once already, and laughed. For I'm happy with the decisions I've made in life, and haven't changed since then.