Thread: Hone of the Day

I do not think you can tell if an inclusion is toxic by looking at it. I have stones with similar looking wires that are not toxic, one that is. Many such wires will "shine" after use because they get polished and they are basically glass - by definition toxic. But many are thin/small/friable enough that they can't support themselves and wear with the rest of the stone and may pose no issue. Some lines could also have rougher grit in them.

But if you can feel it, that's not a good sign unless it is lower than the hone surface. Take a razor and do circles and ellipses on slurry away from the line and then inspect the bevel under magnification. Then do some on the line and inspect the bevel under magnification. If the line is toxic, you'll see scratches etc on the bevel.

If you do see scratches on the bevel, you have some choices. 1) return the stone, 2) lap and use the back if it is flat enough and free of inclusions, 3) lap past it, or 4) pick the line. I can't tell in your image, but it looks like the line is possibly shallow.

To pick a line, take a carbide scribe and push the point straight down on the offending inclusion until it fractures. You'll have a tiny "dot" where you did this. Do this along the entire line until you have a series of connected dots that are now lower than the stone. Then take the scribe at 45 degrees and LIGHTLY trace along the line, using the scribe to "knock" the sharp corners off the line and dislodge any remaining funky particles. DO NOT try to go along the line first, it just seems to make a mess of things. Finally, take a nagura and with slurry rub the area of the line, the slurry will help smooth things off.

Then test again. If you want me to take a look at the stone and give you an opinion, I'd be glad to do that, just cover the shipping.

Cheers, Steve

Originally Posted by Steve56

I do not think you can tell if an inclusion is toxic by looking at it. I have stones with similar looking wires that are not toxic, one that is. Many such wires will "shine" after use because they get polished and they are basically glass - by definition toxic. But many are thin/small/friable enough that they can't support themselves and wear with the rest of the stone and may pose no issue. Some lines could also have rougher grit in them.

But if you can feel it, that's not a good sign unless it is lower than the hone surface. Take a razor and do circles and ellipses on slurry away from the line and then inspect the bevel under magnification. Then do some on the line and inspect the bevel under magnification. If the line is toxic, you'll see scratches etc on the bevel.

If you do see scratches on the bevel, you have some choices. 1) return the stone, 2) lap and use the back if it is flat enough and free of inclusions, 3) lap past it, or 4) pick the line. I can't tell in your image, but it looks like the line is possibly shallow.

To pick a line, take a carbide scribe and push the point straight down on the offending inclusion until it fractures. You'll have a tiny "dot" where you did this. Do this along the entire line until you have a series of connected dots that are now lower than the stone. Then take the scribe at 45 degrees and LIGHTLY trace along the line, using the scribe to "knock" the sharp corners off the line and dislodge any remaining funky particles. DO NOT try to go along the line first, it just seems to make a mess of things. Finally, take a nagura and with slurry rub the area of the line, the slurry will help smooth things off.

Then test again. If you want me to take a look at the stone and give you an opinion, I'd be glad to do that, just cover the shipping.

Cheers, Steve

Thanks for the offer! Depending how things unravel with the seller I might look into that. The line goes through the entire stone. The method you mention is how I figured it all out. See my bruno blade had a history with microchipping, so I had assumed incorrectly that I caused the chippy edge. I did a test honing late last night with a different razor, and ran into the same issue, so it is the stone not the razors. I also don't think this stone is as hard as it was described as due to when I use my botan slurry stone, it slurries the hone, not the nagura. I'm really thankful for all the advice and generous offers made, I'm just really hoping that it all gets taken care of by the seller.

Originally Posted by Steve56

I do not think you can tell if an inclusion is toxic by looking at it. I have stones with similar looking wires that are not toxic, one that is. Many such wires will "shine" after use because they get polished and they are basically glass - by definition toxic. But many are thin/small/friable enough that they can't support themselves and wear with the rest of the stone and may pose no issue. Some lines could also have rougher grit in them.

But if you can feel it, that's not a good sign unless it is lower than the hone surface. Take a razor and do circles and ellipses on slurry away from the line and then inspect the bevel under magnification. Then do some on the line and inspect the bevel under magnification. If the line is toxic, you'll see scratches etc on the bevel.

If you do see scratches on the bevel, you have some choices. 1) return the stone, 2) lap and use the back if it is flat enough and free of inclusions, 3) lap past it, or 4) pick the line. I can't tell in your image, but it looks like the line is possibly shallow.

To pick a line, take a carbide scribe and push the point straight down on the offending inclusion until it fractures. You'll have a tiny "dot" where you did this. Do this along the entire line until you have a series of connected dots that are now lower than the stone. Then take the scribe at 45 degrees and LIGHTLY trace along the line, using the scribe to "knock" the sharp corners off the line and dislodge any remaining funky particles. DO NOT try to go along the line first, it just seems to make a mess of things. Finally, take a nagura and with slurry rub the area of the line, the slurry will help smooth things off.

Then test again. If you want me to take a look at the stone and give you an opinion, I'd be glad to do that, just cover the shipping.

Cheers, Steve

To each their own. But with thousands of pounds of toishi in my collection, and many more that I handled but did not make the cut- I'm pretty accurate with assessing a stones purity by looking at it, before I even pick it up. Many inclusions you need to hone on- this does not look like one that leaves me in doubt. To understand what the wire inclusions are- usually Fe2O3, a line that wide is far wider than the edge of a razor... It is toxic for razors.

I thought this thread was hone of the day. It's turning into Jnat inclusion of the day..

One of my personal favorite brands NY Thistle crossed the hones Fri
Deadly sharp and sweetly smooth Full Shapton GS progression 1-2-4-6-8-16-30 these NY razors are able to hold that 30k edge so well...




Hone On Gents !!!

Back to the races! Honed up a Klass 6/8, a quarter hollow, actually to test the big piece of koma. The koma is relatively soft compared to a lot of hard material you see these days, but it's also fine. I shaved off the koma edge and got a perfectly pleasant shave, but felt it would be improved by a tomo nagura finish and it was - no surprise here. The hone is a large piece of tokusen-stamped Hatanaka something, lime yellow, hard, and very, very fine.

Klass made a lot of junk in their time, especially pocket knives. I'm also unimpressed by their current razor offerings but hope they will get better. But this razor is very well made, well ground, and overall just a good razor.

Cheers, Steve

Ok, the seller got back to me and is making everything right. He said he tested that stone with a kitchen knife and could not feel the inclusion. I'll be getting a slightly smaller, nakayama maruka kiita nashiji to replace it

Honed this FON golden star tonight, on this beautiful jnat. It was sold to me from an ebay seller advertised as being a nakayama maruka, with no stamps. I don't think it is what he says it is, but it is an outstanding finisher from the results I've gotten on this FON.

Originally Posted by prodigy

Ok, the seller got back to me and is making everything right. He said he tested that stone with a kitchen knife and could not feel the inclusion. I'll be getting a slightly smaller, nakayama maruka kiita nashiji to replace it

Honed this FON golden star tonight, on this beautiful jnat. It was sold to me from an ebay seller advertised as being a nakayama maruka, with no stamps. I don't think it is what he says it is, but it is an outstanding finisher from the results I've gotten on this FON.

That stone is the closest one I have ever seen to my Nakayama if the color is a slight Greenish tint like it looks on my monitor

Originally Posted by Steve56

Back to the races! Honed up a Klass 6/8, a quarter hollow, actually to test the big piece of koma. The koma is relatively soft compared to a lot of hard material you see these days, but it's also fine. I shaved off the koma edge and got a perfectly pleasant shave, but felt it would be improved by a tomo nagura finish and it was - no surprise here. The hone is a large piece of tokusen-stamped Hatanaka something, lime yellow, hard, and very, very fine.

Klass made a lot of junk in their time, especially pocket knives. I'm also unimpressed by their current razor offerings but hope they will get better. But this razor is very well made, well ground, and overall just a good razor.

Cheers, Steve

Beautiful tomae steve! subtle iro coloring.... mmm. Also, an envious razor Glen.

Originally Posted by gssixgun

One of my personal favorite brands NY Thistle crossed the hones Fri
Deadly sharp and sweetly smooth Full Shapton GS progression 1-2-4-6-8-16-30 these NY razors are able to hold that 30k edge so well...




Hone On Gents !!!

That's an understatement! One pass ATG done. Tc