Thread: Hone of the Day

Wanted to test IF I could use a small Sho-Honyama stone (seller rates it 10/15K Grit ) as a "Nagura" finisher after Ozuku's diamond slurry...

Well... think not. Doesn't seems fine enough. Maybe I could use it better as a pre-finisher.

Used the first razor I bought months ago to practice with cleaning/honing and saw (first time of microscope on it) three bad cracks on the bevel (not talking about pitting spots)...

Anyway... it shaved today. Yes, I know I'm a bit crazy!

Meanwhile some "good" Tomos from a friend & an Asano Mejiro are on their way home...

That is not a good test razor because of the cracks and pitting.

Most likely the steel is not good and maybe why it cracked. So, most probably it will not hold an edge and invalidate any testing. The cracks will prevent even pressure on the bevel and edge. The blade will be doing some weird flexing.

I would set the bevel on a synthetic, so you have a good baseline of known grit and stone quality, then finish on naturals to test stone and nagura slurry.

It looks to me like the Ozuku is finishing but not fully removing all the deep stria.

Often when we polish, we see deep stria, that is blamed on the finish stone, but is in fact from the bevel setter. Once the finisher cleans up some of the random stria the deep stria is revealed, it was there all along. This is common when hand sanding.

To test this, alternate the direction of finishing laps so you can tell which stria if from which stone. But first find a better test razor.

Euclid,

You're right regarding the quality of the razor, and the fact to use a better one... but, when I saw the cracks, I however tought to use it to see how the Honyama worked on that Ozuku.

It was already honed and the deep bevel setter's stria (synt 3k) were already (in some way) removed by the synt 8K and Llyn Idwall finisher I used on it some months ago.

Didn't use any other stone this time before the Ozuku. If I look at the images before (diamond slurry) and after Honyama... it seems to me that the sharpening marks got worse after using the latter. I.e. the diamond slurry (thick & light) gave a finer pattern. This, I think, is independent of the cracks on the edge.

Check the marks on the base of the bevel left of the crack on first image: they go from lower right to upper left, then almost disapper after diamond slurry and (in last two photo) they change direction from lower left to upper right... so, I think they are new ones... made after using the Honyama.

Am I wrong?

First, photo 3 is of another part of the razor, so exclude it.

I am looking at stria present in all the photos. To the left of the crack (lower right to upper left). Now the crack could have played a part with inconsistent pressure.

While I do see the stria you mention, there is improvement of the bevel finish, (pebble, kasumi finish), removal of some stria, and most important, straightening of the edge.

In all 4 photos, there is a clear right to left stria pattern that is probably the 3k but the random deep stria in photo 1 is mostly removed, (though there are remnants in photo 2). More time on the Diamond slurry would remove most or all of it for a more pebbled finish and straighter edge.

The left to right stria at the base in the last photo is random and can be caused by a number of conditions, like a burr or sharp corner of the base stone, impurities in the tomo slurry, or pressure.

If the random stria were from the slurry composition and grit size, it would be consistent across the whole bevel.

Another issue when honing a pitted and or cracked razor is that the pit and crack can hold old grit. And that grit can be released later when you are trying to polish.

I am always amused on many honing videos on the lack of cleanliness of the honing area and materials especially when finishing. A single piece of grit can put a deep stria in a bevel and chip a finished edge. It is not critical but can be frustrating and misleading if you are trying to make a comparison.

Most folks just wipe the razor with a towel or rag and a dirty one at that. Just food for thought.

Lighting also makes a huge difference, consistent photo set up will make more consistent micrographs. I use a craft foam mat with a strip of foam as a stop and try to place and remove the razor without moving the scope position.

My point is multi directional stria can hide deep stria and is common with polishing. Because there are many factors that can account for stria magically appearing, do not make judgment based on one example especially a flawed test sample.

I feel the tomo may be better that you think, because there is bevel and edge improvement and the anomaly you point to is not across the whole bevel but only a single spot.

When making a comparison, it is not just about what you see, but also what you do not see, (You do not see the anomaly across the whole bevel).

For us, the bevel can point you in the right direction, the arbitrator is the edge, is it straighter and how does it shave.

Though I would not shave with that razor.

Originally Posted by Euclid440

Another issue when honing a pitted and or cracked razor is that the pit and crack can hold old grit. And that grit can be released later when you are trying to polish.

I am always amused on many honing videos on the lack of cleanliness of the honing area and materials especially when finishing. A single piece of grit and put a deep stria in a bevel and chip a finished edge. It is not critical but can be frustrating and misleading if you are trying to make a comparison.

Most folks just wipe the razor with a towel or rag and a dirty one at that. Just food for thought.

Lighting also makes a huge difference, consistent photo set up will make more consistent micrographs. I use a craft foam mat with a strip of foam as a stop and try to place and remove the razor without moving the scope position.

When making a comparison, it is not just about what you see, but also what you do not see, (You do not see the anomaly across the whole bevel).

For us, the bevel can point you in the right direction, the arbitrator is the edge, is it straighter and how does it shave.

Though I would not shave with that razor.

Interesting to know about impurities can remain inside the pitting's holes...
In my case, I always wash the razors and base stone & diamond plate/naguras under running water betwen the different procedures (base+tick slurry -> base+light slurry -> base+ honyama). After washing wipe the razor with a tissue cloth. Only then I put it under the microscope or go to the next step. Of course can't know if someting remains inside these holes...

My mcroscope is one pf the simplest (and less expensive) usb ones... its stand is ridiculous, so it's difficult to find a steady position/lighting directions. Anyway... I'll try to work on it.

There are a lot of thinghs I don't see yet... that's why I bother you (and other people) with my silly questions/toughts/experiments...

I don’t get overly obsessive about cleanliness, but I to try to keep my work area clean, a plastic food tray and steelex stone holder. I am fortunate, to have a large laundry sink and hot running water a few steps from my honing station.

I try to keep slurry on the stones (level the tray with strips of rubber yoga mat) and when thinning I scoop up slurry with the blade and deposit into a ceramic Japanese soy sauce tray next to the stone. If I do get slurry all over the tray and holder I will rinse and scrub under running water and scotch brite sponge.

For final finish laps, rinse the razor, finish stone and holder. I also wipe down my strops with a damp sponge and microfiber. I often strop between stones or tomo.

If I do fine errant stria at finish, contamination is my first suspect.

My scope is a cheap one as well, I have tightened up the stand with cardboard and foam shims and rest the scope base on a 12x12 black 6mm craft foam and have glued a strip of foam as a rest for the razor spine. Once the scope and razor are place on the foam it is easy to place and remove the razor without disturbing the set up.

If you want to see some guys obsessive about honing look at videos from David Charlesworth and Deneb Puchalski. And those guys are honing tools.

But I bet they get repeatable results.

Thought I would have a go at some oil on a coticule. It is a pretty soft one and I usually just use it as pre finisher (decent shaves) and thought what the heck why not.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-5ioxBwW8Q

Originally Posted by Christian1

Thought I would have a go at some oil on a coticule. It is a pretty soft one and I usually just use it as pre finisher (decent shaves) and thought what the heck why not.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-5ioxBwW8Q

Let us know how the shave was!

Originally Posted by TristanLudlow

Let us know how the shave was!

Turned out to be an excellent shave! Oil really bumped this stone up a few notches. With the somewhat not nice sound coming from it when honing I did not expect it to be as good of a shave as it was