Thread: Harsh edge

Originally Posted by Utopian

Ten laps tends to be too many on a Swaty. Try just 4 or 5. Also, how many strokes are you doing on the 8k? 10-15 should be more than adequate.

I lost count on the 8k. Wanted to be absolutely certain I wasn't moving on too soon. I'd wager I had done 50 laps before my first test shave. I've tried doing fewer, but for some odd reason it always seems like there are more marks left over from the 4k than I'd like.

Originally Posted by Ernie1980

That's good news if you have gotten a good shave in the past from the blade! Now the fun part is getting it there again I would take a break from it and then come back with a better mindset tomorrow.

I think I'll wait a few days. Let the razor burn cool as well as my temper lol. I was about at the end of my patience.

I feel like the Swaty is teaching me a hard lesson by not covering for mistakes made earlier in the process like my C12K does.

Problem sorted out. Got bored today and couldn't resist so I lapped and smoothed out the 4k side of my Norton. Once that was done, I took the razor and did a few light passes on the 4k to knock away whatever evil I had done to the edge the last time I honed it, then cleaned it up with about 15 strokes on the 8k. Stropped as prescribed, 20 linen 50 leather. World of difference but still wasn't quite right (slight tugging) so I dropped back to the 4k and did a little pyramid action, working back and forth between the 4k and 8k hones. Started out 10 on the 4k, 10 on the 8k, working the count down on the 4k each time to 5, 3, and 1. My last count was probably 15 on the 8k.

I don't think I could've gotten it any better at my current skill level. No tugging and shaving fairly close, I could've been happy with that edge. But the focal point of my experimentation has been the Swaty, so of course I couldn't resist the urge to check it under the loupe, pull out the B. hone and give it 4 or 5 passes and recheck. Almost no scratch marks visible, and no noticeable damage to the edge. I skipped the CrOx this time, 20 linen, 50 leather. The shave was very close, and about as comfortable as one could expect given the razorburn from previous experimentation.

I think she'll be alright next time it's stropped and shaved with.

Originally Posted by Utopian

You WILL need to prep your DMT plate. Though it is "flat," not all of the peaks of its diamonds are the same height. IF they were, then you would get a relatively uniform surfacing of the hone by the diamond plate. Because a few diamonds will be a little bit higher, you will find that when you lap the hone you will find a lot of scratches in the hone.

The way to remove those aberrantly high diamonds is to rub a chisel or the shaft of a screwdriver over the diamond plate. The high diamonds will catch the brunt of the force of the steel passing over them and will be removed more likely than worn down. Regardless of how it works, prepping the plate this way will make it work much better with less scratching.

This quote from this thread got the gears in my mind turning. Both my barber hones had scratches on the face when they first arrived. This lead to a lot of lapping, sanding, and polishing. What I'm thinking is the construction of a b.hone is similar to a DMT. Rough grit imbedded ina binding material, but rather than diamond and aluminum it's carborundum/AlO embedded in ceramic. I'm thinking perhaps on a microscopic level, even though I polished these out to 8k on the Norton and ran them over my PHIG, perhaps both hones have a similar issue to a new diamond plate - the cutting material standing up just ever so slightly more than it should in some places, leaving scratches deeper than it should that cannot be seen with the level of magnification I have on hand.

Took the b.hones in to work today and ran the flat edge of a chisel over the surface to give them a little burnish and (hopefully) knock down any bits of cutting substrate that are sticking up higher than they should. Also gives me a good excuse to take the razor in question back to the 4k level, work it back up to shaving on the 8k, and try again. Might get a better edge than it already has, might just be chasing my tail.

Originally Posted by Marshal

might just be chasing my tail.

You might be, however it will be a learning process so nothing is lost. Experimentation and reading often go together for good learning. I played around for a bit with finishing on different barbers hones for a while, and then started rockhounding, there's a giant rabbit hole. I'm late, I'm late...

Ain't that the truth lol. I think HAD is in full swing. I've got a few Welsh slates incoming, and when I re-honed my razors using the lessons from this thread I stopped my Morley at the 4k level so it's prepped and ready to move on to the slates when they arrive. Hopefully between the slates and the b.hones the itch will be scratched for a while.

Edit - now I just need to find a way to grow hair faster so I can experiment more than once every couple of days! Having a larger supply of razors that need honing wouldn't hurt either...time to talk friends into getting straight razors!

I predict a case of honers mange in your future, lol.

So, it sounds like you need to find out where you barber’s hone fits in your progression, I doubt it is finer than your 8k and if you are using it post 8k you are going backwards.

Also stropping is where most new guys have a problem and can easily undo an edge.

Hone the razor on the 8k and remove all other stria, then hone the top half of the razor on the barber hone. Now compare the stria from each, side by side. You will then know where or if, your barber hone fits in your progression.

Do not introduce natural finishers in the progression, until you can consistently achieve a shaving edge, honing on known grit synthetics, or you will just be introducing many more variables into the finish of the bevel and edge. EBay “Welsh” stones are rarely 8k or finer.

Well, I'm a small step ahead of you there. I ruled out stropping by shaving a patch right off the hone, then stropping and shaving another patch. Safe to say the edge improved rather than degrading.

I've also compared the stria off the 8k and the b.hones. my American Hone Co. hone has 2 sides, the coarser side behaving on par with or perhaps slightly below an 8k. The fine side is an improvement on par with the Swaty, at least under 60x magnification. I don't have a finer synthetic than 8k, so I've no frame of reference for just how fine the polish is, but at 60x the striations are really hard to pick out and the edge is almost mirror reflective.

This goes without saying that my focus right now is primarily to get a shaving edge off the 8k. I've set the C12k to the back burner. Using it does improve my edge, but using it with a slurry and diluting it back tracks me below 8k, then slowly brings it back up over 8k, effectively masking any mistakes I made prior to using the C12K. While this does give a nice shave, and isn't inherently a bad thing, it does hamper improvement.

As for the Welsh Slates, I don't anticipate the Dragon's Tongue will be over 8k. In fact, I hope it isn't so I have a natural I can slurry up and use from bevel set. I do have high hopes for the Lynn Melynllyn and the black slate. But as you said, no point fussing with them until I'm getting consistent edges off the 8k.

Marshal.

I just got a Norton combo yesterday and got 3 razors shave ready with ease today.

Here's what I did. I set the bevel on 1k. Honed on 4k until it easily shaved arm hair. I then went to the 8k and remembered watching Sham's video of using the 4/8k which I found the most helpful. On the 8k there shouldn't be any swarf showing up or you didn't do enough 4k work.

Long story short I polished on the 8k until my TPT told me to stop. Stropped on linen and then leather. Did a quick HHT and the hair was just dropping off. No magnification no messing around. Edges shaved awesome. No pull, close and comfortable. This was my first time using the 4/8k. You can do it. You'll have an aha moment when you realize you're over analyzing the whole honing thing. It's rubbing a piece of steel over a rock until it's sharp
. You got this!!!

Originally Posted by S0LITARYS0LDIER

Marshal.

I just got a Norton combo yesterday and got 3 razors shave ready with ease today.

Here's what I did. I set the bevel on 1k. Honed on 4k until it easily shaved arm hair. I then went to the 8k and remembered watching Sham's video of using the 4/8k which I found the most helpful. On the 8k there shouldn't be any swarf showing up or you didn't do enough 4k work.

Long story short I polished on the 8k until my TPT told me to stop. Stropped on linen and then leather. Did a quick HHT and the hair was just dropping off. No magnification no messing around. Edges shaved awesome. No pull, close and comfortable. This was my first time using the 4/8k. You can do it. You'll have an aha moment when you realize you're over analyzing the whole honing thing. It's rubbing a piece of steel over a rock until it's sharp
. You got this!!!

Thanks! I had that moment when Utopian pointed out that I should be getting shave-able edges off the 8k. I've read that before, but not one time until Saturday did I successfully achieve that. And I screwed it up by shaving on razor burned skin because I'm terribly impatient. Long story short, Sunday I re-honed all 4 of my razors and I've sat on them for a few days waiting for hair to grow and burning to cease lol. Monday I took the B. hones to work and prepped the surface with the flat edge of a chisel just to kinda have something to mess with and ease the impatience.

Tonight I pulled out the Germania Cutlery Works razor that gave me such fits, and put it through a shave test. Very close shave, no tugging, and it was a heck of a reminder how long it's been since I had a decent edge on a razor. I'd gotten used to dull-ish ones and using a bit of pressure, so needless to say I got razor burn from h@!!. At least this time it's for all the right reasons! Well, that bad habit will sort itself out soon enough. It'll have to if I did as well with the other 3 lol