Thread: Harsh edge

Originally Posted by RezDog

I see nothing recent about it. There are threads about it going back a long long way. It is not an alien topic at all. It is kind of like taping, some do and some don't.

I can understand taping but not "killing " the edge.

Well there are a variety of reasons which change with why I think I should kill the edge. One of the things that can help in not confusing what is happening with this time of working on a razor with the last failed attempt. At any time that you do a thumb nail test, you are in fact killing the edge. If I am working on restorative honing I will be a little more assertive on dulling the edge. Most of the time it is because I am having issues with the edge. I do not kill the edge every time I hone it is not part of my usual technique. It is discussed quite a bit in a paper written by Harleson and the other person that wrote about it escapes me just because I am trying to think of it. This debate goes back to long before I got here. Old threads into 2008. I see it as one of those things that has it's uses.

I prefer to work back to my mistake rather than to ignore the stages in between.

Like RezDog not something I do all the time, more on well neglected razors. Glenn explained it better than I ever will, "jointing" the edge sounds less drastic. Knocks the high points off, giving a better edge to start at. Took me a while to get my head around it, but it works...

Originally Posted by Utopian

The Swaty may not have improved the 8k edge. That may especially be the case if you did too many strokes--like more than 10. How many did you do? Try dropping back down to the 8k and doing another 10 strokes on that. Then strop 10-20 strokes on linen and 50-100 on leather and test shave. Absent magnified observation, I would repeat that a couple times before dropping down to the 4k. Only when you have it shaving properly off of the 8k should you bother trying to improve the edge with the Swaty, which may or may not improve your 8k edge.

Are you using tape?

If the razor initially failed to cut properly, all you had to do was set the bevel. I really don't get this recent fad of dulling the edge before sharpening the edge. It's like breaking your leg as a first step for training for a marathon. Whether you dull the edge or not you ultimately have to end up with a properly set bevel.

In this case I dulled the edge because there were microchips in it that I initially blamed for the harshness of the edge. Didn't count strokes on the Swaty, but I know it was more than 10. It also saw a few more than the recommended 10 on CrOx, I gave it 15 laps before stropping. I feel like the hone should be improving the edge. The stria off the Swaty are noticeably smaller than those from the Norton 8k under magnification. Possibly even finer than those from my C12K and I know for certain that will get a good shaving edge.

No tape on this one. For a vintage the hone wear doesn't look too bad so it didn't seem necessary. May amend that if it comes to rehoning the blade from 1k again.

I check the bevel as shown in the video - no shinies without magnification. The first few checks with a 60x lighted loupe didn't reveal any either. A fifth very careful inspection has revealed things I'm not happy with. Back to bevel set it goes.

Ernie - not so long ago I had a pretty decent edge on this thing, and it was indeed a very nice shaver. In fact it was easily my favorite razor. But every time I get a good edge, I screw it up by trying to replicate or improve the process.

Well, no point losing sleep over something I can't mess with til Sunday. Once I've got some more stubble worth shaving I'll pull out the stones and work it over again. Current plan of action - back to 1k to ensure bevel is correct. This time I'll move slower and take even more time at each step to ensure it's right before moving on. I'll flip a coin to decide if I'll use the Swaty or a different hone when the time comes. I don't want to give up on that hone, but there is the real possibility that it's a lost cause with my current skill level and I'm doing more harm than good with it.

Reading bad through a lot of old threads and there are several that explain it better than I do.

Originally Posted by Marshal

In this case I dulled the edge because there were microchips in it that I initially blamed for the harshness of the edge. Didn't count strokes on the Swaty, but I know it was more than 10. It also saw a few more than the recommended 10 on CrOx, I gave it 15 laps before stropping. I feel like the hone should be improving the edge. The stria off the Swaty are noticeably smaller than those from the Norton 8k under magnification. Possibly even finer than those from my C12K and I know for certain that will get a good shaving edge.

No tape on this one. For a vintage the hone wear doesn't look too bad so it didn't seem necessary. May amend that if it comes to rehoning the blade from 1k again.

I check the bevel as shown in the video - no shinies without magnification. The first few checks with a 60x lighted loupe didn't reveal any either. A fifth very careful inspection has revealed things I'm not happy with. Back to bevel set it goes.

Ernie - not so long ago I had a pretty decent edge on this thing, and it was indeed a very nice shaver. In fact it was easily my favorite razor. But every time I get a good edge, I screw it up by trying to replicate or improve the process.

Well, no point losing sleep over something I can't mess with til Sunday. Once I've got some more stubble worth shaving I'll pull out the stones and work it over again. Current plan of action - back to 1k to ensure bevel is correct. This time I'll move slower and take even more time at each step to ensure it's right before moving on. I'll flip a coin to decide if I'll use the Swaty or a different hone when the time comes. I don't want to give up on that hone, but there is the real possibility that it's a lost cause with my current skill level and I'm doing more harm than good with it.

You can get a pretty great shave off of the 8K. If you look back through the Janorton threads you can see some of the techniques used to get a good polish on the 8K. Glen has a couple of videos on it as well.

Originally Posted by RezDog

Reading bad through a lot of old threads and there are several that explain it better than I do.

I will do some further searching.

Believe it or not I am open to changing my opinion!

Although at my age that is hard to do.....

Perhaps instead of referring to it as dulling or killing the edge, I should've called it flattening and preparing the edge for a new bevel set due to micro-chipping. Quickly working out small chips or bad metal (rust, pitting) is the only time I will intentionally dull an edge unless it's on my Gold Dollar that I use for practice and experimentation. Believe me, if I can get away with dropping only as far back as 8k or 4k I'm not going to intentionally dull a blade just ensure that I have to go back to 1k. Honing and bevel setting is fun, but it isn't that much fun.

Dulling the edge before bevel setting makes it easier judge when you have reset the entire length of the bevel. If the bevel is correctly set you should be able to shave arm hair with a light touch, similar to what you would use to shave your face. The arm hair should shave smoothly, once again similar to shaving your face. Is this where your bevel is at before you move up?