Thread: what does a coticule edge feel like

Originally Posted by ShaveWares

Then it might be due to your honing technique with your coti's. Using my coti's and bbw's (none are vintage BTW) I am able to put on an edge every but as sharp and tug free as those from any synthetic or JNAT.

that was my initial thought as well. Then i tried several more stones, and a razor honed by glen. The results never change. Id like to do a trade off with someone who has a truly shave ready razor on a coti, that they have tested. Ill trade one that i have honed. it will be the final test, but i fear i already know the result. my edge will shave their face fine, theirs will not shave mine. my facial hair resists even the sharpest edges. I have looked long and hard to find stones that provide enough sharpness, and razors as well. I have to use harder steels and top tier jnats to achieve a smooth, tug free shave. this doesnt mean i cant shave off a coti, or lower grit finisher, or a harder steel razor, it just requires perfect technique and attention to detail. when you watch shaving videos online of guys who go from below their adams apple up to their chin with no resistance and smooth sailing, it has never been the case with me. the idea of having to delicate intricacies for a stone, that then change based on what razor is being honed just does not appeal to me, especially when the shaves are sub par. I take my jnat and rub a razor on it and its shave ready with no magic dances and singing sweet love songs to the stone HAHA.

Originally Posted by TristanLudlow

I've had tuggy shaves from a certain coticule, smooth but not sharp enough for me; but I've also had tugless shaves from another coticule, also smooth and sharp enough; both left me skin feeling smooth, skin friendly.

Because it doesn't feel as sharp as a thuringen edge, I find myself paying more attention to shaving technique and beard prep, but that's just me. (Which is not a bad thing)

It all depends, but there's a lot of experimenting with these stones, there's a lot of variety; I just finished a razor on a coticule with lather wheres with water my edges were OK, but not good enough for my liking, so I'll see how that goes.

Different veins get different results, I think, many say the results are negligible and that most coti's leave somewhat of the same sort of edge; I do seem to prefer some veins over the other.

Trial and error it has mostly been, and I most likely haven't fully conquered the art of honing on a Coticule.
But when you get it right, it's a wonderful thing, I haven't always completely appreciated, but I'm starting to now.

I also have read and have experienced that when I'm finishing on a Coticule it needs a good stropping session, this should give excellent results.

Maybe a little off topic, but my best shave I ever had was a razor finished on a BBW with just water, but one of my least pleasant shaves were also coming off a BBW, so hmm yeah.

If you're coticule isn't leaving a sharp enough edge, spend some time on a coticule with soapy water. Even if the coticule isn't a good cutter for middle progressions (I'd highly advise that you try the BBW for the middle stages to get your edge even sharper then you will on the coticule) finish on soapy water. You'll get your edge as sharp as you would on any synthetic or JNAT. In fact I've gotten my razors too sharp on 3 different BBW's and had to tone them down a little.

Originally Posted by ShaveWares

If you're coticule isn't leaving a sharp enough edge, spend some time on a coticule with soapy water. Even if the coticule isn't a good cutter for middle progressions (I'd highly advise that you try the BBW for the middle stages to get your edge even sharper then you will on the coticule) finish on soapy water. You'll get your edge as sharp as you would on any synthetic or JNAT. In fact I've gotten my razors too sharp on 3 different BBW's and had to tone them down a little.

+1 on the soapy water, but most of all +1 on spending time with one just stone. All techniques transfer but most stones require different amounts of this or that, so the foundations will keep shifting if you're changing stones.

Some other ways to finish are applying a little lather. From my experience this is a pre-finishing stage cause I think it increases suction so makes the un-slurried surface more aggressive.
Graphite: get a pencil and cover the surface in graphite. Hone dry.
Talcum powder: Rub talcum into the surface and hone dry.
Nurugel: Available everywhere in the land of smiles, this is a water based gel. It's like a water/oil combo.
Rub dry coti slurry stone over stone, hone on slurry powder. The times I've done this I've found it quite aggressive.
Dry lap with coti slurry stone. Wash thoroughly then hone wet. I think this is one of the reasons people might find a difference between new and vintage stones. It's just a guess, and I don't have any microscopes or anything to check the surface, but dry lapping seems to leave a finer surface than wet lapping. I might be wrong. And honing a few razors/burnishing lightly with an old razor seems to me to leave the surface slicker - so the final edge seems smoother and sharper.

I also find tiny circles much better in the finishing stage. I used to do a combination of half strokes then full strokes but not any more.
Not sure about Dr. Matt's finishing under running water, but I frequently add water in the last couple rounds of circles.

Have used all this hydroplaning trickery with good results. Nothing wrong with that, in fact in puts the skill element back into the honing session. I think a lot of it depends on the coti you are using. Also by definition you are using a mixed grit hone, thats what these natural hones are. Also no one will convince me that they don't vary as you lap them either. Also the sedimentary substrate and how far the garnets protrude determines the technique employed. I always used magnification and on certain cotis I stop using circles toward the finishing stages. I have got keener edges from my slightly glazed lv compared to when I lap it.

Originally Posted by ShaveWares

If you're coticule isn't leaving a sharp enough edge, spend some time on a coticule with soapy water. Even if the coticule isn't a good cutter for middle progressions (I'd highly advise that you try the BBW for the middle stages to get your edge even sharper then you will on the coticule) finish on soapy water. You'll get your edge as sharp as you would on any synthetic or JNAT. In fact I've gotten my razors too sharp on 3 different BBW's and had to tone them down a little.

I value your opinion, however I just have a different opinion. The best coticule, in my opinion, would come no where near the comfort and sharpness of even a mid range jnat. Again that's me and my opinion, based on the shaves I've had off many coticule and many jnats. In reality it's like debating over what's better, a Ferrari or a Lamborghini. It's about trying all the options available and determining what works best for you, which it looks like we have both accomplished. I challenge anyone willing to try and shave my face with a coticule edge and prove me wrong, heck now I'm thinking about playing with mine again! I've spent many hours, tried all the tricks mentioned, and still end up on a jnat...

I have had edges from a coticule that would rival L5 jnat or top end pasted edge. To qualify this though the frequency of these occurrences have been like the appearance of Haileys comet. I have always been unable to recapitulate these results. Not easy stones to use. Dr Matt makes the most sense to me when it comes to using them.

Originally Posted by Deckard

Have used all this hydroplaning trickery with good results. Nothing wrong with that, in fact in puts the skill element back into the honing session. I think a lot of it depends on the coti you are using. Also by definition you are using a mixed grit hone, thats what these natural hones are. Also no one will convince me that they don't vary as you lap them either. Also the sedimentary substrate and how far the garnets protrude determines the technique employed. I always used magnification and on certain cotis I stop using circles toward the finishing stages. I have got keener edges from my slightly glazed lv compared to when I lap it.

i was under the impression that coticules were metamorphic rocks? I dont think a metamorphic rock would contain any sedimentary substrates. If im wrong please elaborate because i find this very interesting.