Thread: AAAAAAAaaaaaaaggggghhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!'

Don’t know what you bought, I don’t think the Naniwa, Super Stone comes as a combo stone.

There are stones matching those grits on EBay, but they are not Naniwa stones and are too soft for razor honing.

For razors you will not need the 220 grit stone and you only need either a 1k or 2k, not both. The jump from 5k to a Chinese stone may be also be a large jump.

Not saying it can’t be done… by experienced hands, but, you are making your learning process more difficult and reducing your chances of success.

A 1/4/8k progression is what you need. PHIGs are hit and miss.

The 1ooo and 2000 are for bevel setting and you only need one or the other then you would be well to have a 5k-8k and a 12000 for finishing. I have all that line up save for the bevel setters as I usually have my blade sent out for beveling. I am not aware of any Naniwa combo stones but that's not saying they may not exist . Can you possibly take a decent pic of these stones and the boxes they came in ? Where did you get them If I may ask also ?

Yes, if your Chinese hone can produce a decent edge, what you got will prep the edge sufficiently. Though, you probably will need well over a hundred strokes on the Chinese hone to finish it.

Originally Posted by Euclid440

Don’t know what you bought, I don’t think the Naniwa, Super Stone comes as a combo stone.

There are stones matching those grits on EBay, but they are not Naniwa stones and are too soft for razor honing.

For razors you will not need the 220 grit stone and you only need either a 1k or 2k, not both. The jump from 5k to a Chinese stone may be also be a large jump.

Not saying it can’t be done… by experienced hands, but, you are making your learning process more difficult and reducing your chances of success.

A 1/4/8k progression is what you need. PHIGs are hit and miss.

Originally Posted by Nightblade

The 1ooo and 2000 are for bevel setting and you only need one or the other then you would be well to have a 5k-8k and a 12000 for finishing. I have all that line up save for the bevel setters as I usually have my blade sent out for beveling. I am not aware of any Naniwa combo stones but that's not saying they may not exist . Can you possibly take a decent pic of these stones and the boxes they came in ? Where did you get them If I may ask also ?

I disagree, though your opinions reflect the common opinions.


Shapton recommends a doubling of grits in a progression. If you don't believe me, then at least if you trust Shapton then you should follow a 1k with a 2k and then a 4k and then an 8k, etc. Now, the norm is to progress from a 1k to a 3k, 4k, OR 5k. I have always disagreed with that norm as I always have believed that the best way to remove the 1k scratches is with a hone that is a smaller jump in grit size, which is where the 2k hone comes in.


"A 1/4/8k progression is what you need."

NO. Those are not magical numbers.

Want to know why? It's because the Naniwa SuperStone progressions of 1k/3k/8k and 1k/5k/8k also are commonly recommended, and they all work. Just because the 1k/4k/8k progression was the grit sequence of the Nortons that were THE go-to hones in the early days of SRP does not mean that you must follow this exact progression. The exact gaps between the grits is not exactly critical. Since you already bought the 220/1k and the 2k/5k, then that is what you have to work with. Now, you asked a simple question, which was...


"might I may get away with these and the PHIG as a finisher?"


The answer remains YES, as long as your particular Chinese hone can serve as a finisher.

Not sure which one of us you are addressing but mine are just recommendations not set in stone(no Pun). I don't set bevels. for me I use 5k 8k and 12k a 4 or 5 k can do either good I got my info from Glen. I started with Naniwas and decided it was good enough for me never got into or knew anything about Shaptons progression. I'm not a honemeister but I get decent edges enough for me. Cheers.

I was addressing issues within both posts. The only objection I had with yours was the claim that the OP should only use the 1k or the 2k but not both. I already gave the reason why I disagree.

The Naniwas are just fine (no pun intended, or, maybe, just a little) and I assume yours are the SuperStones. They work very well and there is nothing at all wrong with the 5k, 8k, 12k progression. If I had my druthers, I would tell the OP to do 1k, 2k, 5k, 8k, and 12k, but that is not what he bought. Given what he purchased, I am of the opinion that he should use the 1k, 2k, and 5k hones.

Yeah fair enough...like I said I dont' do bevels so I never used the lower grits .

Naniwa did produce a 220/1000 and 2000/5000 super stone.

Naniwa Super Stone 220 / 1000 grit combi | knivesandtools.co.uk

Naniwa Super Stone 2000 / 5000 grit combi | knivesandtools.co.uk

They should work like every other superstone. Splash and go. Do not soak them.

As for shaving off the 5K It is possible, It'll be a bit rough. An 8K would be a better finisher or if you only want to add 1 more stone the 10K. The PHIG is anyone's guess. Some are good but slow, Others are a bit softer and fail to hit the mark.

1, 2, 5K will be fine in rotation. To finish the rotation you have the option of either 8K with the option of adding the 12K. Or you could go with the 10K directly from the 5K. You should be able to make that jump it'll just take a few more stokes.

I've successfully polished away 1k stria with a Dragon's Tongue, so assuming his PHIG is capable of finishing a razor and his DT is finer than 5k he should be able to finish a razor with what he's got on hand.

Might be a little more challenging than it would be if he had an 8k hone, but in theory it should be possible. Usually when I want to play with naturals I'll use the Norton 4k, Dragon's Tongue, then move on to either a PHIG or Welsh slate finish with.

As to the low end progression, I guess that all depends on what manufacturer you go with. I tend to agree that smaller jumps are preferable, and doubling the progression is preferred. 1/2/4/8 would be optimal to my way of thinking, but Naniwa doesn't offer a 4k so folks tend to compromise one way or the other. I think Shapton is the only commonly recommended hone manufacturer that makes a 1/2/4/8 progression. I guess you could mix 'n match, but would it be better to put a naniwa 2 in the Norton 1/4/8 progression, or a Norton 4 with a Naniwa 1/2/8? Would it even be worth it to mess with the Norton 1/4/8 progression since their 4k is designed to be aggressive and remove 1k stria? And that's before considering slightly less optimal (but equally effective) 1/3/8, 1/5/8, 1/2/5/8, and 1/3/5/8 Naniwa progressions.

It can get real confusing real quick if you let it. I can only imagine that's why Euclid simplified things and said 1/4(ish)/8 was the progression the OP needs. It's all that Norton offers, you can probably do Shapton 1/4/8 and get away with it til you saw fit to nab a 2k later, and if you get a 1/3(or 5)/8 Naniwa setup you'll do ok, and you can always add whichever middle hone you didn't get later to optimize your progession.

If they are Super Stones, you are good. You will spend some time on the PHIG.

A 12k Super Stone would really round out your progression, give you a bullet proof finisher and make learning to hone a lot easier.

Once you master honing with a full synthetic progression, then experiment with naturals.