Thread: Learning Curve

There is another "truism" that I heard early on. Why buy a used vintage razor for $10 that has a lot of problems when you can buy one that has few problems for $15?

It's fun to be able to handle unusual circumstances but unless a razor is rare and valuable there is little reason to have to deal with excessive edge pitting or blade warping or whatever when you can get a much better razor for a similar price since there are literally thousands of razors listed on Ebay at all times.

Sometimes you think you are buying a trouble free razor and when it arrives it has "issues" and then it can be fun to see what you can do but if someone is wondering how hard it is to hone a razor I don't think it's necessary to include how hard it is to hone razors that are in very bad condition.

It's much easier to just not buy razors like that.

I learned with junk razors, two barber hones, and a microscope that showed me exactly what was happening every time I put the razor to the hone.

I learned a lot more after finding SRP.

Initially I learned to hone with some NOS razors and three new ones. I sorted through YouTube and found a presenter that I liked and focused on his videos. Some time later I went to a meet, and the progress happened a little faster, then a second meet, where I learned in person from the man that made the videos I watched. This meet was pivotal in everything coming together. I have honed a lot of razors, all of them, even the early NOS and new razors survived and still look and shave great. The use of tape helped those razors a lot I am sure.

Originally Posted by gcbryan

There is another "truism" that I heard early on. Why buy a used vintage razor for $10 that has a lot of problems when you can buy one that has few problems for $15?

It's fun to be able to handle unusual circumstances but unless a razor is rare and valuable there is little reason to have to deal with excessive edge pitting or blade warping or whatever when you can get a much better razor for a similar price since there are literally thousands of razors listed on Ebay at all times.

Sometimes you think you are buying a trouble free razor and when it arrives it has "issues" and then it can be fun to see what you can do but if someone is wondering how hard it is to hone a razor I don't think it's necessary to include how hard it is to hone razors that are in very bad condition.

It's much easier to just not buy razors like that.

Well, when you are just starting off you really aren't aware of what to look for in a razor as far as condition goes and photos on flea bay can be misleading. The up side is that you will learn a hell of a lot more from honing imperfect razors than you will from less flawed ones. That goes to Glen's saying that "honing is easy till it isn't". You seldom forget the lessons the tough ones give you either. The few brand spanking new razors that I have bought all required some degree of honing up and including a bevel set on up. A bit disappointing that was but now I know what to expect from modern factory edges. Yes, good condition razors are easier to hone and build your confidence in honing faster. That is until you get a tough one that will smack beginner the over confidence right out of you.

Bob

True, but a lot of people who are asking for advice have one razor and want to know if they can learn to hone it or if honing is so hard that they have to always send it out to a "professional".

That person has one razor and it isn't that hard to learn to hone that one razor.

The other issue is that most of "us" did learn and therefore the newer person shouldn't be made to feel that they can't do it. We did it so why do "we" advise them to do something different?

ive watched this thread and so far i haven't heard anyone say that you cant learn to hone, so lets stop saying it. that's as counterproductive as the point your trying to make. just cause you can hone(although i don't know you can) doesn't mean he will ever learn, probably can, but who knows. not every one can learn. that's a fact. if i can , and you can but he cant,,, is that everyone? ill call up my 6month old granddaughter and have her hone my razors. or my neighbors son with no arms. ok. Tc

As a newbie, the honing light went on for me when I read/realized the following. I’m sure there is a lot more, but keeping these things in mind really helped improve my edges and actually reduced the time I needed to get to shave ready. They certainly reduced the number of times I had to revisit the stones with the same blade.

- For any blade that requires it, setting the bevel is the most important step. Be prepared to spend a lot of time on this step and check progress frequently. I use the arm hair test to determine when I should move on.

- Patiently work through a progression of grits after setting the bevel and check progress frequently before moving up to the next grit. I have never had much success with HHT and use the thumb/finger pad test and my loupe instead. Each to his own.

- ALWAYS MAKE SURE THE SPINE IS ON THE STONE before moving the blade.

- Use your wrist to “torque” the blade slightly to apply some pressure on the edge to the stone and use a light touch finishing each step with only the weight of the blade. I often use my other hand to lightly apply pressure to the nose of the blade to make sure the blade “kisses” the stone evenly along its entire length.

- Clean the blade and stone after each inspection.

- Clear swarf frequently. Clean the blade and your hands before moving to the next stone to avoid cross-contaminating grits.

- Use the lightest touch possible on the finisher. Keep the finisher well lubricated and clean of swarf.

- ALWAYS MAKE SURE THE SPINE IS ON THE STONE.

This works for me and it took me a while to learn without having a mentor to demonstrate and observe what I was doing. Having an experienced someone to coach me in person would have been extremely helpful.

Honing in itself is is not hard, that learning curve is pretty short if you are a little handy and pay attention to what you're doing, once you get the technique down, it's the same for every hone.

The experience curve is longer, learning to feel what you want in an edge and to figure out in what exact shape your edge is and at what stage.
Of course, I think with a microscope (which I do not use) it will be exponentially easier and pretty much foolproof almost, so again, not much of a problem here in the case of a microscope.
(with edges that are not in perfect shape or vintage ones, this will be a more challenging part)

Then it's all about figuring out what finish you like on your razors, that's little experimenting with different finishers, shouldn't be a big learning curve either.

Originally Posted by gcbryan

True, but a lot of people who are asking for advice have one razor and want to know if they can learn to hone it or if honing is so hard that they have to always send it out to a "professional".

That person has one razor and it isn't that hard to learn to hone that one razor.

The other issue is that most of "us" did learn and therefore the newer person shouldn't be made to feel that they can't do it. We did it so why do "we" advise them to do something different?

I think the advice for those with one razor has normally been to get others to learn on and send out your one known good razor for honing. That way you don't mess up your one and only razor and gives you a benchmark to judge your tyro honing efforts against. That is not the same as advising them not to learn honing. It's up to the person asking the question to determine for themselves if they want to follow that prudent advice.


With all new endeavours there is a learning curve and ways to shorten it. This is why having a mentor for one on one and/or going to meets is suggested. Again it is up to the person asking the question to determine it is a possibility for them to take advantage of that advice or not.

Nowhere in that advice do I see any thing to indicate to the person asking the question that they should not learn to hone.

Bob

I’m still trying to learn and I think the YouTube videos have been helpful but if there is an experienced honer in NNJ, I would really appreciate some mentoring. I have a 4/8 Norton and a finishing stone (12k, I think) but just can’t seem to get a really good edge yet. At some point I’d like to try my hand at a full restoration but right now, I need to get the basics of honing down.

I’ve been using straights for about 5 years and I have 7 so for me, honing probably makes sense in the long run not to mention I’m a full blow wet shave enthusiast.

If there is anyone in the general area that enjoys teaching, I’d really appreciate your tutelage.