Thread: Learning Curve

My normal recommendation is to learn to touch up a razor first. When a razor starts to pull the whiskers, you will do 10 "x" strokes on your barber hone or 8+K stone. Strop well and shave. If it restored the edge, great. If not, repeat up to 3 times. If you don't get it back to proper shaving in 3 times at the stones, most likely it will need the bevel reset. Once you have touching up a razor right, then you will have accomplished a few things: Pressure (most important part of honing), keeping the edge and spine on the stone, and simply how it "feels". Many stones give feedback, learning feedback is important.

I can't stress how finding a honing mentor will help you. I am talking someone who is proficient at honing, not necessarily with the "badge" like on here.

Lastly, once you think you are getting it...send a razor to a veteran honer and ask them to shave with it. They can give you feedback on how your edge is and if there is room for improvement they can give you that advice.

Originally Posted by gcbryan

The other issue is that most of "us" did learn and therefore the newer person shouldn't be made to feel that they can't do it. We did it so why do "we" advise them to do something different?

"We" don't.
I'm not aware of any instance when "we" told someone not to try honing for themselves. That is quite different from advising someone to try one razor honed by an experienced honer.

Originally Posted by tcrideshd

ive watched this thread and so far i haven't heard anyone say that you cant learn to hone, so lets stop saying it. that's as counterproductive as the point your trying to make. just cause you can hone(although i don't know you can) doesn't mean he will ever learn, probably can, but who knows. not every one can learn. that's a fact. if i can , and you can but he cant,,, is that everyone? ill call up my 6month old granddaughter and have her hone my razors. or my neighbors son with no arms. ok. Tc

I've don't think you've added much to this conversation with this post. You don't need to try to control what I say. This is a discussion forum and it's not just about repeating the prevailing "wisdom". My point is just as valid as the opposite point.

Originally Posted by Utopian

"We" don't.
I'm not aware of any instance when "we" told someone not to try honing for themselves. That is quite different from advising someone to try one razor honed by an experienced honer.

No, of course no one says "Don't hone". It's more like, learn to shave first, get a mentor, go to a meet, buy a long line of expensive hones and honing isn't for everyone and there are "honemeisters" out there that you will never be as good as.

Or the constant insistence that someone send a razor out to be honed and then maybe one day they might want to try it themselves.

All that is a valid comment and opinion. It's just one sided. My opinion raises the other side. Honing is fairly easy and most people can do it.

You know that this isn't a sincere discussion when people (not you) start to nit pick the words "anyone can do it" and point out that their 6 month old granddaughter or one armed friend can't do it.

You don't, IMO, have to be "handy" (just not a klutz) to hone just like you don't have to be "handy" to change a tire. You just need to learn how to do it. We don't have tire meisters. Honing is what it is. You learn to shave without having to go to the barbers for a while first. You just jump in. You can do that with honing as well.

You don't have to but you can. Everyone on this or any other forum does have to have the same opinion on every subject either.

Originally Posted by gcbryan

No, of course no one says "Don't hone". It's more like, learn to shave first, get a mentor, go to a meet, buy a long line of expensive hones and honing isn't for everyone and there are "honemeisters" out there that you will never be as good as.

Or the constant insistence that someone send a razor out to be honed and then maybe one day they might want to try it themselves.

All that is a valid comment and opinion. It's just one sided. My opinion raises the other side. Honing is fairly easy and most people can do it.

Well, I certainly disagree with you.

You are correct in that we do not tell people "Don't hone." There is a simple reason for that. For most users of straight razors honing is an integral part of the use of a straight razor.

Learn to shave first? Of course you should learn to shave first. What would be the point in learning how to sharpen a tool that you don't know how to use? How could you possibly evaluate your sharpening skills if you cannot assess the sharpening that you did. Learning to shave first simply makes sense.

Get a mentor, go to a meet? Absolutely. I lost count after the last Asheville meet-up, but I'm guessing that I have been to about 40 meet-ups by now. Have you ever been to one? If you have, then the odds are good that you have seen beginners absolutely delighted by the "aha moments" that they get when having the opportunity to see how to do this stuff in person. One that comes to mind is when I showed a guy the correct side to use on a Shapton GlassStone. Getting help in person makes a huge difference. I have seen experienced honers learn new things at meet-ups. I remember Lynn at the Asheville meet-up practically giggling after trying something new that he just couldn't wait to show me. We all learn from each other and it is a lot easier to do that in person. Regarding mentors, when the concept first came around I was against it. I did not like the idea of some members' opinions somehow being perceived as more relevant than that of someone else, but they do serve a purpose. They are an opportunity for beginners to privately ask questions from a single person when they are not comfortable asking on the open forum. It happens a lot. Mentors are an available resource to be used as much or as little as any member wishes, just like the rest of this forum.

Buy a long line of expensive hones? Where did you get this? The common suggestion here is to buy ONE hone when starting out with honing. That is by far the most common suggestion. The fact that sometimes more hones are recommended is due to varied opinion here because, as you should have noticed by now, opinions here often vary.

No, honing is not for everyone. Some people simply don't want to do it. Other, just plain give up before they got the hang of it. Some people catch on quickly and some take longer. I know a guy who has been honing for years and yet is still struggling to do it well. We never tell anyone that they cannot hone. We tell them it will take practice and whether they get the hang of it or not is up to them. I will repeat however, that getting help in person does in fact help most people learn to hone better and faster.

You never will be as good as honemeisters out there? Really? I've never seen that claim. I actually detest the term. Lynn was jokingly and lovingly named the honemeister by a friend long passed. In my opinion that term belongs to no one but him. People who hone are honers in my book. Whether or not they hone well is up to their own and others' opinions, but I have never seen the claim that anyone does not have the potential to be a proficient honer.

By the way, we do have a very good one armed honer on this forum.

Regarding the "constant insistence" of sending out a razor to be honed, do you have any idea how many people have been screwed over when they bought Sweeney Todd, Zeepk, Master, or Lucas Webster crap razors? They thought straight shaving would be cool but then when they paid their money and tried to shave, it didn't work at all and so too many of them gave up. The exact same thing too often happens when they buy a decent razor and try to sharpen it themselves. They don't know how to shave and they don't know how to hone. Without a decent tool and remaining self-sufficient, they simply give up. Sending out a razor for assessment and/or honing at least takes away that variable. That is why many of us often offer to check out beginners' razors for free. We are trying to help. Ensuring the razor is ready to go at least gives them a chance to figure out how to shave. Of course, they wouldn't need to send the razor out if they could find a local mentor or attend a meet-up where they could both get their razor honed and better learn how to hone for themselves.

You disagree with me and that's fine, but I don't think your blanket statements about what you consider to be the standard party lines here are correct. Oh well.

I suggest that you do an advanced search on a long-gone member here. Read the threads started by ProfessorShak. He thought honing was easy. He did not need to follow any advice here. He couldn't hone his razors and eventually sold all of his razors and hones because he refused to accept help or advice. He also refused to let me hone one of his razors for free. Oh well.

really,, son, i have as much relevance to this discussion as you, your constant attitude has been to stir the pot. and now you think i don't have the right to say what i want to say, go back to the facebook page and spread that crap.. and furthermore, my granddaughter can hone better than you Tc

I taught myself to hone. I bought a selection of stones and a couple of junk razors and figured it out. I might have spent a total of 6 or 8 hours on the bench before I 'got it'.

I did read some instructions somewhere. I didn't watch any videos. I didn't know there were any.

There is some technique involved but it ain't rocket science. No reason to get all worked up about it.

Many pick it fairly easily. It’s not rocket science.
However if we all stated that honing is super easy and every idiot can hone, what are we then saying to and about those struggling? It remains that some pick it up easily and others require more time and help. There are a ton of things like that in life. If everyone found honing to be super easy we would not have a string of threads all about I’m having trouble honing and need some help. It would also never be the main topic at most meets. The fact remains, people all are different. Don’t shut out those that may be struggling with a smug attitude because you can do it and did not need help.

It's just my opinion that you may be discouraging new shavers from attempting to accomplish simple tasks, by making them seem all but insurmountable.

You're making a figurative mountain out of a mole-hill.

Originally Posted by tcrideshd

really,, son, i have as much relevance to this discussion as you, your constant attitude has been to stir the pot. and now you think i don't have the right to say what i want to say, go back to the facebook page and spread that crap.. and furthermore, my granddaughter can hone better than you Tc

I'm sure you are witty in person. The internet isn't for everyone. You did seem to know a thing or two about stirring the pot however.

I'll bet your granddaughter can express herself more persuasively than you as well, son.