Thread: Taping while honing

Ahem...

https://sharprazorpalace.com/honing/...tml#post413799

Most of us will spend hours hand sanding and buffing a vintage blade to bring to as close to a mirror finish. So, it would be sacrilegious to then hone without tape and bugger up a spine.

I hone for other people, usually brand-new razors, I tape every edge, they are not mine and there is no need not to deliver a pristine shave ready razor.

If you are new to honing, many a new honer will grind a spine needlessly learning to hone and can thin a spine so much that the edge will not hold. Most new guys do too many laps and use too much pressure. So, use tape when learning to hone, once you perfect your honing, 6-12 month, then decide if you want to continue to hone with tape.

Chances are, once you bevel set a razor you may never need to do a full 1k bevel set again, and only need a few laps on a high grit stone.

Kapton does work well, except when you need to make up for lost spine thickness. Even then I use Kapton over electrical tape for the wear resistance.

Originally Posted by sharptonn

Ahem...

https://sharprazorpalace.com/honing/...tml#post413799

Any mastodon bones in that core sample Tom ?

Originally Posted by tintin

has anyone actually measured the thickness of the taped spine before and after honing? I would think that the difference in thickness would be so minute (unless one is using a very heavy hand and never changes the tape) that is wouldn't make that much difference. In one of Glen's videos he demonstrates how few strokes it actually takes to reset the bevel when switching from tape to no tape.It really doesn't take that many, so the few thousandths or tenth of a thousandth wouldn't matter. JMHO

I actually have, sort of, I doubled a layer of 3M 700 over so the calipers wouldn’t stick to it and then just divided the result by 2 to find the thickness of a layer.

I won’t go into trigonometry, but as a rule of thumb, one layer of tape will increase the bevel angle by about 1 degree, with blade widths from about 5/8 to 7/8. A little less with wide blades and a little more with narrower ones.

Does that make a difference? Well it’s a continuing discussion as everyone who’s been on a razor forum for a while knows. IMO it does not in most cases, maybe if you’re already at the upper end, like 22-23 degrees but for razors in the normal 16-17 degree range maybe not so much. If you’re concerned about increasing the angle, try the 1mil Kapton tape. It’s actually 2.7 mil total including the adhesive, but still less than half the width of 7 or 8mil electrical tape. And it’s quite a bit more wear resistant which is a nice bonus.

2.7 mil, you had to bust out the micrometer for that one! Nice!

Very easy to overcome any change of angle caused by the tape you are using. I use kapton mainly but use electrical tape to 'fill in' any spine ware.

I use a speadsheet that has the info on it to figure bevel angles. I think it was Bob that started it for me being im not computer freindly.

I use tape to save on hone wear and to adjust the angles to get closer to the right angle. If it takes one layer of Kapton tape or three layers of electrical tape. But i dont hone without some tape. To each there own.

Here is my take on it.
When you are new to honing there is a great tendency to put too much pressure on the spine, hence the tape. When you get good you will notice a considerable amount less tape wear. That is the point in which hone wear would be minimal if you honed without tape. Until that point you are putting extra wear on the spine and will cause geometry issues before too long. Also the thing about spending hours and hours getting our vintage blade looking like new is also very true. I tape because I can.

Originally Posted by Steve56

I actually have, sort of, I doubled a layer of 3M 700 over so the calipers wouldn’t stick to it and then just divided the result by 2 to find the thickness of a layer.

I won’t go into trigonometry, but as a rule of thumb, one layer of tape will increase the bevel angle by about 1 degree, with blade widths from about 5/8 to 7/8. A little less with wide blades and a little more with narrower ones.

Does that make a difference? Well it’s a continuing discussion as everyone who’s been on a razor forum for a while knows. IMO it does not in most cases, maybe if you’re already at the upper end, like 22-23 degrees but for razors in the normal 16-17 degree range maybe not so much. If you’re concerned about increasing the angle, try the 1mil Kapton tape. It’s actually 2.7 mil total including the adhesive, but still less than half the width of 7 or 8mil electrical tape. And it’s quite a bit more wear resistant which is a nice bonus.

If i understood the OP, the question was weather the angle change during honing because of the tape wear. There's no doubt that there is a slight difference with adding the .008 per side, but still a small amount.

Just my two cents...I always use tape, always, spine wear is totally avoided and as was stated before tape is cheap. I have learned a lot from GS, and have had nothing but great results. Even a few compliments on a few tough ones that I had done for others, and I use Ace brand electric tape ,which holds up well.

Originally Posted by cudarunner

First and foremost, while I didn't believe it when I started honing and using tape there is a Huge Difference between the cheap electrical black tape that you find at most places to the 3M 700 tape that was recommended to me by a Pro Honer.

The 3M 700 has much more wear resistance. That's no bull!
Attachment 305336

I still am a bit anal as I change the tape after setting the bevel (if the bevel is taking awhile, I re-tape) and then I change tape after the 1K--the 4K then the 8K and then when I go to a finisher. (If I go from say a Naniwa 12K to a Coti, I again change tape). As Glen (GSSIXGUN) said in his video when he was helping speedster learn to hone "Tape's Cheap".

Just my two bits------------for those youngsters that $0.25 USD

I change the tape two or three times during bevel set. I usually use a gritty slurry in my initial bevel work. After rinsing the slurry, I replace the tape and get an edge. I typically replace it once more and get the last few laps on my bevel setter with fresh tape. I will typically replace it twice at 4k and 8k. A final fresh layer for 12k and 20k.