Thread: Chamfering the edges on a Coti

Originally Posted by STF

I added a layer of kapton tape (because that is how I honed it on the synths) and a layer of electrical tape.

I did 30 x-strokes dry on my coti.

I feel that using running water is smoother and more skin friendly than dry. I did use ChroOx because I had used it when I did the running water attempt so I felt I had to use it again to make the comparison fair.

I'm going to try the running water and the dry comparisons again but this time without the ChroOx.

So far I like the running water the best.

I share the same experience.

It's only when I started using my Cotis under running water for finishing that I got my best edges ever. Just need a good stropping on linen / cotton to clean the edge and on leather.

I'm simply amazed by the Coticule's skin friendliness, in that regard it certainly beats my Escher, whereas the Escher is slightly keener. Both excellent finishers, but nostalgia added a big factor when I inherited my great-great-grandfather's razors and his natural combo Coticule. I do enjoy the natural combos the most, so many possibilities. Lovely lovely stones.

Not wanting to hijack your thread, but wanted to add to the discussion.

yesterday I tried finishing under running water on my La Grise Coticule,
it was a good edge, but it wasn't super great like my LPB or La Veinette.

So today I re-finished on the La Grise's BBW side under running water.

I could clearly see on the tape that it was slower than the Coticule side.

It left a very keen and smooth edge. After a good stropping the shave was very very good and I preferred it to the Coticule side.

In all honesty I find the BBW and Coticule to be far more similar than it is different, the edges are quite alike.

I haven't tried other BBWs under running water, but with my La Grise the BBW edge shaved a little easier. Skin feel from both is excellent, I slightly prefer the BBW here as well; it was more skin friendly thant he Coti side of the La Grise.

It's worth experimenting more, but both sides are excellent finishers, where in this case the BBW has a slightly bigger potential and my personal preference.

Originally Posted by TristanLudlow

Not wanting to hijack your thread, but wanted to add to the discussion.

yesterday I tried finishing under running water on my La Grise Coticule,
it was a good edge, but it wasn't super great like my LPB or La Veinette.

So today I re-finished on the La Grise's BBW side under running water.

I could clearly see on the tape that it was slower than the Coticule side.

It left a very keen and smooth edge. After a good stropping the shave was very very good and I preferred it to the Coticule side.

In all honesty I find the BBW and Coticule to be far more similar than it is different, the edges are quite alike.

I haven't tried other BBWs under running water, but with my La Grise the BBW edge shaved a little easier. Skin feel from both is excellent, I slightly prefer the BBW here as well; it was more skin friendly thant he Coti side of the La Grise.

It's worth experimenting more, but both sides are excellent finishers, where in this case the BBW has a slightly bigger potential and my personal preference.

Over the weekend I'm going to finish my razor 30 x-strokes dry but not use Chrox to see how that feels, I'll do the same with running water a few days later.

I should have a good idea what I like best to finish and whether I can get where I want to be without Chrox.

I just finished my kinfolks again, again, again. I will keep re-honing or refinishing with the same razor over and over because I want to get my Coti down and only using it when I need to would take forever. I also think that like most skills, it needs to be done over and over immediately, a month from now I would have forgotten everything I had learned if I didn't make sure it was firmly in my head.

I slightly change my technique every time, it has been said on here that just practicing the wrong way achieves nothing.

This time I finished with 30 x-stroke laps dry but did not use Chrox, I did 40 laps on cotton and 80 on Leather (English Bridal).

I shaved immediately, the shave was good, sharp and smooth, not as sharp as it was with some chrox but I think that if the edge isn't good enough for me in future I will do another 30 x-strokes, then rinse and repeat until the edge is where I want it. That might not achieve anything but there's only one way to know for sure.

I still liked the edge finished under running water best so far but that was with Chrox so my next experiment will be running water no Chrox.

I am really enjoying this Coti, one of the benefits for me is that it's fast so my different experiments don't take as long as the Ark did.

As Tristan said, my coti edges shave better and feel much smoother with a really shallow angle, shallower than usual - almost spine on skin I found.

I don't often check my face with Alum, I kind of feel if I got carried away, but today i decided to check my face. I felt the sting in about two different places on my neck but i do tend to spend a lot of extra time shaving there so all in all, I'm not unhappy with my Coti progress so far.

Get R done, Steve.

That's the benefit of learning to hone for yourself.

Finding what's most comfortable to your beard and skin type.

I don't mind a coti edge, and agree to its skin friendliness.
Its just that it has more resistance going thru my beard, so the Escher's keeness + comfort, punches my ticket.

Here's another thing to add to your list of..let's try this.

Produce your best coti edge, then take it to your trans Ark for 30-40. Should increase its keenness a bit.

I've also used a Thurigan rubbing stone, to produce slurry on Coties.

Originally Posted by STF

I did 40 laps on cotton and 80 on Leather (English Bridal).

As Tristan said, my coti edges shave better and feel much smoother with a really shallow angle, shallower than usual - almost spine on skin I found.

Back in the days on the Coticule forum, there were plenty of discussions about stropping on canvas after honing, the general consensus was that about 60 laps on cotton/linen will do. (of course many variables come into play, but about 60 seemed to hit the sweet spot for most)
A Coti edge needs a very good stropping on canvas and I do share that sentiment, since upping my stropping numbers coming off the stone on my cotton strops, the edges have become better. I used to be a lazy stropper, but never got rewarded for being one. Now I make sure I strop well.

I'd try doing a little more passes on the canvas coming off of the Coti.
I do need that smooth feeling edge feedback on my strops coming straight off the stone though.

And indeed, I shave with the spine pretty much flat against my face with my Coti edges.

Originally Posted by outback

I don't mind a coti edge, and agree to its skin friendliness.
Its just that it has more resistance going thru my beard, so the Escher's keeness + comfort, punches my ticket.

I do remember when I couldn't get anything good out of any of my Cotis, I was so fed up with them, that I started using one of my Escher / Thuringers and had that AHA moment.

At that time I never knew exactly what was missing, but it turned out my razors only needed a good finisher, hence insert my Escher, it fixed all my problems.

I dont shave with an Escher edge anymore, but at the time it provided for a sharper, keener and a very smooth edge. I could do 1 pass ATG shaves with my Escher's edge, something I cannot do with my Coticule edges.
Not that the Coti edges aren't sharp, it's that my Escher edges were that good and gave indeed a very "lack of resistance" feeling while shaving, it is that good.

Foolishly I once sold a bunch of hones on the bay and by accident sold my Escher as well, I wish I hadn't done that. I do miss its edges. I have a different color Thuringer (lighter) somewhere but it's not exactly the same (my old one was dark), although I haven't used it in a long while, I would like to revisit it to compare.

The prices of Eschers are high right now, but so are the prices for large natural combo Cotis.
My skin can tolerate a Coti edge better on a multiple pass shave though, but I do like both stones very much. I do find that the naturals difference easily beats my synth 20K for skin friendliness.

Originally Posted by outback

Get R done, Steve.

That's the benefit of learning to hone for yourself.

Finding what's most comfortable to your beard and skin type.

I don't mind a coti edge, and agree to its skin friendliness.
Its just that it has more resistance going thru my beard, so the Escher's keeness + comfort, punches my ticket.

Here's another thing to add to your list of..let's try this.

Produce your best coti edge, then take it to your trans Ark for 30-40. Should increase its keenness a bit.

I've also used a Thurigan rubbing stone, to produce slurry on Coties.

Thanks Mike, an Escher sounds intriguing, I may well try to get one eventually but I need to really understand my Coticule and my Arks first and squeeze everything I can out of them.

Talking of my Arks, you suggested that I could try using a trans ark after finishing with my coti to add a bit more to the edge. I assume that would be as an alternative to Chrox but a question has occurred to me, will using another stone like an ark replace that smooth coti edge with an ark edge?

Originally Posted by TristanLudlow

Back in the days on the Coticule forum, there were plenty of discussions about stropping on canvas after honing, the general consensus was that about 60 laps on cotton/linen will do. (of course many variables come into play, but about 60 seemed to hit the sweet spot for most)
A Coti edge needs a very good stropping on canvas and I do share that sentiment, since upping my stropping numbers coming off the stone on my cotton strops, the edges have become better. I used to be a lazy stropper, but never got rewarded for being one. Now I make sure I strop well.

I'd try doing a little more passes on the canvas coming off of the Coti.
I do need that smooth feeling edge feedback on my strops coming straight off the stone though.

And indeed, I shave with the spine pretty much flat against my face with my Coti edges.

Thanks Tristan, I upped my canvas stropping from 15 to 60 and then 80 on leather.

I just shaved and there was a huge difference in the smoothness.

You didn’t ask me but I have a little experience with what you are asking. I’ve tried my hard arks after 12k Nani finish and some razors seem to respond better than others. I have also tried the same off of my 8k Nani and 5k as well as my Chinese 12k, various barbers hones etc.

I have found not too many razors can hold a 12k naniwa edge finished with Arkansas type of edge but of the ones that do they are incredibly sharp and very smooth. Some edges seem to fall apart if you take them too far. I’ve tried the same off of my little thuringian but need more experimentation. I found the edge to be a little uncomfortable but the stone is very small for what I am used to and started over a couple of times due to bad technique. The ark stepped it up for sharpness but I feel I’m still leaving a lot on the table with that little thuri before I feel I’ve given it a proper chance.

So I can’t say whether or not you would have a similar experience but well worth giving it a try. I’ve done all sorts of different pastes and stones for finishing but have found if you don’t have a decent secondary like a cotton or flax or similar you’ll be working a lot harder than you need to. I’ve been through several strops with differing man made fibers and they all seem to effect the edge negatively as far as the comfort of a shave goes. I have a couple of strops with linen and it made an incredible change to my edges. I rarely use CrOx anymore for razors, though I have a few Sheffield’s that really respond well to a few passes on a pasted hanging strop.

All this talk has me wanting to pull out the stones and give my coti a more fair shake. Once you find your way to your edge and repeatable results it makes experimenting much easier as you know generally what to expect and how to get there.

I just went through the whole coticule progression with a Wade to & Butcher near wedge. This is the first time I used Kapton tape, so I basically had to start from scratch with the bevel reset.

Thick slurry to start followed by successive dilutions and eventually water only and then the last 10-20 on the dry stone weight of the razor only.

I followed that up with20 laps on a CrOx paddle strop, 20 laps on linen and 60 on Japanese leather that I am pretty sure is a Kanayama 70000 with a different name - smooth as glass.

Got a very nice shave. My experience is that this will improve as I strop and shave more with the razor.