Thread: Straight Razors Dull Despite Little Use

If you are happy with the edge he did for you then thats great.

But IMO if he is using a burr method then he is knife sharpening a razor. When honing a razor we dont use the burr method. Now i will admit that when i have a razor that i restored and the edge is blunt and needs lots of work to just get step one (bevel set) then i do occasionally work up a burr on 1k. Then work the other side the to a burr. Then kill the edge and start honing properly.

Im not knocking his edge as you say he shaves with a straight. Maybe its a combo of sharpening and honing that he does. As long as the end product is keen and smooth.

Creating a burr deliberately is great for knives because when it breaks off there can be a microchipping effect which is desirable for slicing tomatoes etc. Your face, not so much.
Of course restoring a razor will likely create a burr at some point but once the edge is shave ready any touch ups after that will not involve creating a burr.

Originally Posted by Gasman

If you are happy with the edge he did for you then thats great.

But IMO if he is using a burr method then he is knife sharpening a razor. When honing a razor we dont use the burr method. Now i will admit that when i have a razor that i restored and the edge is blunt and needs lots of work to just get step one (bevel set) then i do occasionally work up a burr on 1k. Then work the other side the to a burr. Then kill the edge and start honing properly.

Im not knocking his edge as you say he shaves with a straight. Maybe its a combo of sharpening and honing that he does. As long as the end product is keen and smooth.

Originally Posted by onimaru55

Creating a burr deliberately is great for knives because when it breaks off there can be a microchipping effect which is desirable for slicing tomatoes etc. Your face, not so much.
Of course restoring a razor will likely create a burr at some point but once the edge is shave ready any touch ups after that will not involve creating a burr.

He only goes for a burr on the 1k, and even so only a very slight burr that I couldn't even detect with the pad of my finger.

I was asking him how he was deciding when he is done on the 4k and 8k, if he is counting time, or strokes, or whatnot. He said he mostly goes off the way light bounces off the bevel, or just sort of guesses when he is done. He doesn't feel for bevel on 4k or 8k.

I didn't ask him to touch up the razor, I intentionally blunted it against the edge of the stone beforehand so I could watch the entire process from scratch, so this is likely not the process he would use to touch up an edge.

With all due respect, creating a burr is one sure way to know that an apex has been reached. It should not be necessary once you are well versed with honing and comfortable with all the nuances but if done as you described it will not hurt your razor. The process is burr one side till the burr can be felt the entire length; burr the other side in the same way; join the edges and remove the burr by drawing the edge along the stone; do light X strokes to bring the edge back. Additionally I personally wash the blade and stop on a canvas strop I keep specifically for stropping between stones.

Again, with respect, many people will frown on burring the edge but it is better for you to do it that way than to keep going all the way to finish on a blade that has an unset ot incompletely set bevel. Now,.I know some are probably currently gnashing their teeth and saying, "what you should be doing is learning how to do it.the right way." Theoretically that is true. You however are not in honing college working on countless edges for academics sake. You are trying to get and keep your small collection shave ready. Academics can come later. Remember that eventually you should be able.to reach shave.ready without this method but do what it takes to get you there now keeping the textbook method as a goal.

That is my two cents worth.

Originally Posted by PaulFLUS

With all due respect, creating a burr is one sure way to know that an apex has been reached. It should not be necessary once you are well versed with honing and comfortable with all the nuances but if done as you described it will not hurt your razor. The process is burr one side till the burr can be felt the entire length; burr the other side in the same way; join the edges and remove the burr by drawing the edge along the stone; do light X strokes to bring the edge back. Additionally I personally wash the blade and stop on a canvas strop I keep specifically for stropping between stones.

Again, with respect, many people will frown on burring the edge but it is better for you to do it that way than to keep going all the way to finish on a blade that has an unset ot incompletely set bevel. Now,.I know some are probably currently gnashing their teeth and saying, "what you should be doing is learning how to do it.the right way." Theoretically that is true. You however are not in honing college working on countless edges for academics sake. You are trying to get and keep your small collection shave ready. Academics can come later. Remember that eventually you should be able.to reach shave.ready without this method but do what it takes to get you there now keeping the textbook method as a goal.

That is my two cents worth.

What is the "correct" way to determine a bevel has been sufficiently set?

Boy, that is a loaded question! That all depends on who you ask. There are many tests for bevel set. I frequently use the TNT (thumb nail test) but others will tell you NEVER do that on the basis of it damaging the edge but then so do joining (running the edge along the stone). I do not do it at the very end of the process but up to near the end. Our friend from Taiwan TMILO uses a similar method of drawing the edge against a tissue. Arm hair shaving too is another one. Optics help also. Look at the bevel from the side and look for chippiness. Don't just look at the striations, look at the very edge. Also look straight down on top of the edge for shiny spots. Those spots are where the two bevels do not meet to form an apex.

There are many more factors and more methods and MUCH more to add to that but in the interest of not muddying the water I would defer you to your knife guy you are working with for now. He is getting you good shaveable edges. Go with what works. Tell him POLITELY what has been discussed here and see what he says. Perhaps he is starting you off one easy way and will lead you to more advanced methods. He is spending the most useful time with you right now. Take advantage of that and make the best of it. At least I think that is the way to go.

Okay I get the idea I think. I just read over pretty much the entirety of scienceofsharp.com.

The most interesting thing on that site by far is the interaction between micro-convexity and strop material. I've been thinking about this process in terms of mostly abrasion vs burnishing, or varying fineness of grit, but never considered the possibility that going straight from 8k to leather would create foil edges that don't happen if you use a pasted linen strop in-between due to the geometry and compression mechanics of the cloth as well as other characteristics of the material at play (I don't think the guy who wrote that website expected this either.)

It certainly makes me appreciate further your gift of the pasted linen strop, that seems key to the entire process now. Hopefully I don't have to worry about resetting bevels for the indefinite future regardless, so the details of how I do or do not set a bevel shouldn't come into play that significantly regardless.

I'm not getting further lessons as we're on the subject, I essentially traded my guy some metallurgical testing for an evening of lessons, so there will not be a progression into more advanced techniques. I believe I should be able to develop more advanced techniques on my own now that I have a more solid foundation.

One thing still on my mind: The photos on scienceofsharp seem to indicate that pastes stropping, past a certain point 10-30 laps in, does not change much, however, it still seems to me to be a rather aggressive thing to do on a frequent basis as part of a regular stropping routine. What micron CrOx paste did you use to make that strop, and do you find it necessary to use frequently?