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Thread: Straight Razors Dull Despite Little Use

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    Senior Member Tathra11's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rickytimothy View Post
    I've never had to grind a stone before.
    Which raises the question......Have you checked your stones are flat? With regular honing, some synthetic stones can form a hollow surprisingly quickly. A proper straight edge laid across the stone at 3 or 4 intervals and also along the length too.
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    Senior Member rickytimothy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tathra11 View Post
    Which raises the question......Have you checked your stones are flat? With regular honing, some synthetic stones can form a hollow surprisingly quickly. A proper straight edge laid across the stone at 3 or 4 intervals and also along the length too.
    Yes but not recently. I was wrong to say I've never ground a stone actually, just never chamfered one. I heard the King 1k has a habit of dishing rapidly, so I have trued it with pencil grid and a truing stone before, I haven't tried this with the 4k norton yet. I suppose I could just use the truing stone to grind the edges if I wanted to.

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    Senior Member rickytimothy's Avatar
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    I took another couple shots at it. First flattening my stones.

    Pencil lines drawn on 8k side of the norton combo stone and my king 1k

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    The 1k got nice and flat with all the pencil lines and previous grey markings removed. The 4k appears to be getting shredded. Not sure if this is leftover grit from the 1k stone, or just this flattening stone being really bad at its one job, but soaking them both further and running them under water didn't make the shredding any better.

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    The flattening stone in question.

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    In any case, I tried five variations of stroke on the 1k.

    1. Basically no pressure, just enough to keep the blade on the hone, conventional x-strokes, blade leading, switching sides to complete full back and forth strokes, both sides blade leading. This had absolutely no results, the blade could not cut any hair anywhere but the heel.

    2. Keeping the blade close to fully on the stone at all times, varying very light pressure slightly from heel to toe as I move down the stone in a close to straight stroke, only moving to the side enough to get the whole blade as the blade is wider than the stone. No results on this either.

    3. Stronger pressure, still light, full x-strokes. Would not cut at all after.

    4. Back and forth strokes, one side at a time, alternating blade leading / blade trailing, just basically scrubbing it lightly, then switching side after about 20 of these. The blade will no longer cut hair on any part, not even the heel.

    5. Same as above but with slightly stronger pressure. Will not cut at all.

    I am increasingly baffled that they actually sold this for real money as a razor that cuts hair. I have seen it, after a skilled honing, cut hair, but I cannot get it to do so for the life of me. It is extremely frustrating spending hours trying to improve the edge with zero to show for it.

    I guess I'll try *very gently* honing up the nice razor that paulFLUS sent me, just to build some confidence back up. The Dovo beat me.

    Please send me links to specific guides on honing uneven razors. I can't get it with text instructions, it just will not shave at all.
    Last edited by rickytimothy; 04-22-2023 at 04:18 AM.

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    Senior Member blabbermouth STF's Avatar
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    No disrespect intended

    I don't think you should touch the good edge that Paul sent.
    Shave shave and shave some more, you really need to know how a good edge feels as a shaver with some experience before you touch metal to stone.

    I told the following story to a new guy from Labrador recently in a private message, he missed the point and told everyone i wanted his razors which was not the case but i will repeat it now and hopefully it will be useful.

    There was a guy on this forum, he had never shaved with a straight razor even once.

    Before his first shave he bought 2 razors new, a Dovo and a TI plus a complete progression of Naniwa SS.

    He had his first shave and wasn't happy with it.

    He got the second razor and shaved, he wasn't happy.

    It didn't occur to him he had only had 2 shaves and needed time.

    He honed both brand new razors until he couldn't even cut his finger.

    He was so disgusted that the stones didn't work that he went out and bought an electric razor.

    He offered the razors and stones for sale, I tried to talk him into getting the razors honed properly and persevering but he was over it so i bought the stones and the TI, another member bought the Dovo.

    My point is that you should get them both honed by one of the experts here and shave for a while before you end up killing your edges so effectively that you go off the idea of straights.

    Like i said, no disrespect intended and its only my opinion for what its worth.
    - - Steve

    You never realize what you have until it's gone -- Toilet paper is a good example

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    Senior Member rickytimothy's Avatar
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    I suppose you're right, though to be clear I have no intention of trying to re-do the edge on that razor from scratch, simply some very light strokes on the 8k. It has this stiction feel to it that kind of scares me using it, I have a huge scar on my lip from the last time one of my razors was sticking badly (that was just really bad shaving cream.)

    I spoke to my local honer dude, his razors he would be willing to sell are mostly wonky geometry like mine, so I would have to try and find something beginner friendly on eBay.

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    Home of the Mysterious Symbol CrescentCityRazors's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rickytimothy View Post
    In any case, I tried five variations of stroke on the 1k.

    1. Basically no pressure, just enough to keep the blade on the hone, conventional x-strokes, blade leading, switching sides to complete full back and forth strokes, both sides blade leading. This had absolutely no results, the blade could not cut any hair anywhere but the heel.

    2. Keeping the blade close to fully on the stone at all times, varying very light pressure slightly from heel to toe as I move down the stone in a close to straight stroke, only moving to the side enough to get the whole blade as the blade is wider than the stone. No results on this either.

    3. Stronger pressure, still light, full x-strokes. Would not cut at all after.

    4. Back and forth strokes, one side at a time, alternating blade leading / blade trailing, just basically scrubbing it lightly, then switching side after about 20 of these. The blade will no longer cut hair on any part, not even the heel.

    5. Same as above but with slightly stronger pressure. Will not cut at all.

    I am increasingly baffled that they actually sold this for real money as a razor that cuts hair. I have seen it, after a skilled honing, cut hair, but I cannot get it to do so for the life of me. It is extremely frustrating spending hours trying to improve the edge with zero to show for it.

    I guess I'll try *very gently* honing up the nice razor that paulFLUS sent me, just to build some confidence back up. The Dovo beat me.

    Please send me links to specific guides on honing uneven razors. I can't get it with text instructions, it just will not shave at all.
    It's not the bow. It's the Indian. You positively absolutely refuse to follow one honer, using kit and technique identical to his. Random technique can only give you random results. Am I recalling correctly, that your Dovo is a Bismarck or similar model? Those are the easiest razor to hone that Dovo makes, and they are not twisty or warpy like Dovo's entry level razors notoriously are. Guides will not help you because you will not follow them. Until you begin to exactly and precisely follow one acknowledged honer and perfectly duplicate his kit and his technique, you are doomed to wander in the honing wilderness forever, I'm afraid. It will cost you time. It will cost you money. And you still won't be able to shave with your own edge. And BTW, hitting Paul's no doubt very competent edge with an 8k would not be gentle at all. It would be a waste. Don't go there. Not even with a 12k, or with 1µ film, or a slate or a Jnat. When you can put a good edge on the Dovo, THEN consider touching up your other razor when it needs it, if that ever happens.

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    Senior Member blabbermouth PaulFLUS's Avatar
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    Sorry but I have to agree. You are going in too many directions. Pick one, ANY one (well, almost any) and follow it until you get success. Master that then venture others.
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    Senior Member rickytimothy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrescentCityRazors View Post
    You positively absolutely refuse to follow one honer, using kit and technique identical to his.
    You seem equally unwilling to read. I actually did follow the exact technique my local guy showed me, in person, on my stones. Certainly I am not skilled at it the way he is, and also that was on a much more perfect razor, so it didn't play out.

    I also followed the scienceofsharp plan step by step. Again, it's intentionally a simple guide for simple razors using a simple setup, I couldn't get it with this razor.

    "You are getting bad results therefore you are not following instructions" is really, really ignorant and pointlessly insulting. I am following instructions verbatim. I said myself that if my results are not approaching anything useful following a text guide, then I am on the lookout for a more visually followable guide especially for a warped razor. This is indeed a warped razor too, it is not a bismarck it's a colonel conk, which is the most notorious Dovo line for quality control problems.

    Quote Originally Posted by PaulFLUS View Post
    Sorry but I have to agree. You are going in too many directions. Pick one, ANY one (well, almost any) and follow it until you get success. Master that then venture others.
    See above. I'm looking out for something I can follow start to finish *for warped razors.* Both the in person lessons I got and the scienceofsharp guides are not for warped razors.

    It does remain a wide open question whether I could get decent results on a razor with sound geometry, I freely admit and have many times already. I will look around ebay for something decent in the near future. It seems like there is a major skill barrier for warped razors, even slightly warped. I would be happy to buy one off of a member here, honed nicely or not. I just need something that doesn't have curveballs that require special techniques.
    Last edited by rickytimothy; 04-23-2023 at 03:25 AM.

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    Home of the Mysterious Symbol CrescentCityRazors's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rickytimothy View Post
    You seem equally unwilling to read. I actually did follow the exact technique my local guy showed me, in person, on my stones. Certainly I am not skilled at it the way he is, and also that was on a much more perfect razor, so it didn't play out.

    I also followed the scienceofsharp plan step by step. Again, it's intentionally a simple guide for simple razors using a simple setup, I couldn't get it with this razor.

    "You are getting bad results therefore you are not following instructions" is really, really ignorant and pointlessly insulting. I am following instructions verbatim. I said myself that if my results are not approaching anything useful following a text guide, then I am on the lookout for a more visually followable guide especially for a warped razor. This is indeed a warped razor too, it is not a bismarck it's a colonel conk, which is the most notorious Dovo line for quality control problems.



    See above. I'm looking out for something I can follow start to finish *for warped razors.* Both the in person lessons I got and the scienceofsharp guides are not for warped razors.

    It does remain a wide open question whether I could get decent results on a razor with sound geometry, I freely admit and have many times already. I will look around ebay for something decent in the near future. It seems like there is a major skill barrier for warped razors, even slightly warped. I would be happy to buy one off of a member here, honed nicely or not. I just need something that doesn't have curveballs that require special techniques.
    Science of Sharp is a good site, but it is a sharpening site. This is a razor site, and there are other razor sites where you will find most of the same players on the field. It's a community, and we are all about razors. Which do you think is better, for honing your RAZOR? You liked Paul's edge. Why not emulate him, and shoot for the same sort of edge as your goal and benchmark? And if it is a Dovo Bismarck that you have, I can promise you it is definitely not warped to any significant degree unless you have honed it to be so. Also I think we have already discussed your local sharpening guy.

    Further, if you are going to mess about with entry level razors or old abused vintage razors, you WILL find that hardly any will have perfect geometry, and it is up to the honer to set the bevel and make it right. It is part of honing razors. It held me back in my early days but the Eureka moment was when I took my first expendable and cheap at under $3 (at the time) Gold Dollar, and resolved to beat it into submission, and was rewarded with a bevel that definitely did not have consistent face width, but had two faces that met perfectly and could be honed to as good an edge as any other razor. As over the years GD's quality control started to become less horrible, I found that a gentler touch was possible, and I got much better at honing other razors. The level of brutality vs finesse varies with the razor but the underlying truth is "Do no harm that is not necessary to make it shave well". If you began with a new Dovo Bismarck and the geometry sucks, there is only one person who could have made it so, but the good news is it can almost certainly be corrected if not ignored, and that correction can come from a competent honer, or it can even come from you, but not if you are attacking in random directions and leaning to your own perceptions and misunderstandings. The fact that after all this time, with all these respected honers offering and giving help, you still are not achieving even satisfactory results, is self evident.

    Don't give up, but get your technique from someone grounded in the community, one guy, and stick with it. I PROMISE this will work if you DO IT HIS WAY, with HIS CHOSEN TOOL SET, and do not wander or meander. Meanwhile, Paul has made a killer offer and I urge you to take it, listen to his analysis and advice, and meanwhile get a whole bouquet of GD's to practice on. The P-81 and the 208 are actually pretty nice razors. A good honing, a bit of polish, and new scales, and you would never know that they were not $120 razors. The humble and clunky #66 can be turned into a nimble sports car of a razor, with enough care and attention, but can also be "just honed" after the rough geometry is tamed, and made to shave quite well. Little financial risk, plenty of cannon fodder, no sleep lost over destroying one or two. I am afraid that maybe you are well on your way to a massacre on your Bismarck, and it is time to back off, take a deep breath, and re-evaluate your grand strategy once and for all.

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    Senior Member blabbermouth PaulFLUS's Avatar
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    By the way, the offer still stands to hone them free of charge and assess what is going on if you want to pay for shipping. Hell, send em all and I'll do all of them to atom splitting edges and make the most of your postage.

    EDIT: I'll even give pointers on each one to help you in the future.
    markbignosekelly and STF like this.
    Iron by iron is sharpened, And a man sharpens the face of his friend. PR 27:17

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