Thread: Chromium Oxide vs. Diamond Paste

Originally Posted by Lemur

Any links to the articles?

I don't like the edge diamonds give either, hard to keep the blade on the outside of the skin.

I have searched among my hundreds of bookmarks dealing with shaving and can not find said articles. There were recollections of about five years of reading about edges and sharpening razors and knives.

Here is an interesting page dealing with Katanas. Don't look to hard on this site. Katanas bring new meaning to "expensive hobby"!

DIY Guide Sword Surface Polish

I will post of I find one of the original articles that I have read.


Later,
Richard

.25 does give a harsh edge, in my opinion. Between Crox and .25 diamond, the crox gives the smoother edge. Both give a sharp edge and at that level of sharpness, a tiny bit more just doesn't even really matter. HOWEVER, I don't use the .25 diamond. I use .5u diamond because it is fast, and then I use .1u diamond. Once you get down to .1u, you start getting smoothness again. Particularly on balsa. I actually have been ecperimenting with using a tiny bit of pressure on the balsa with the idea that it presses the edge slightly down into the soft balsa and gives a tiny bit of convexness, which my mentor is always raving about. Anyway it gives a brilliant but very comfortable edge. As long as I keep the shave angle low I don't get cut.

Recently I saw pics from a microscope of crox and diamond particles. The crox particles are more rounded, with small, even facets on them. The diamond particles were all over the place at .5 micron. So it is pretty obvious why the crox gives more smoothness than .5 or .25 diamond. As for the .1, well, the particles are just so small that they can't make as big of a scratch in the steel.

I am really thinking about getting some of that CBN stuff. Should be even smoother.

Originally Posted by riooso

Concerning the reflection of the bevel. I have read some articles that indicate that Japanese masters look at the reflection and gauge the smoothness of the edge by using that visual clue. One must however realize that the reflection is only part of the story, the other being the pattern on the steel that is giving off the reflection.

With planes & chisels this may be because they do not sand their work & expect the bevels to not mark the timber.
With sushi knives it is because they want a certain visual aspect to the flesh ie a rainbow effect from the fishes oil smearing on the flesh which does not happen with a shiny western knife.
With Razors I have no idea.

Am i The only one thatuses .5 micron chromium oxide, then .1 micron iron oxide? I got it from whipped dog straights

I thought lots of guys used the red/green combination. It seems like a good setup to me. I just like my diamond paste. I know Whipped Dog sells a lot of those kits so somebody out there is using them!

Originally Posted by TulaneBoy

.25 does give a harsh edge, in my opinion. Between Crox and .25 diamond, the crox gives the smoother edge. Both give a sharp edge and at that level of sharpness, a tiny bit more just doesn't even really matter. HOWEVER, I don't use the .25 diamond. I use .5u diamond because it is fast, and then I use .1u diamond. Once you get down to .1u, you start getting smoothness again. Particularly on balsa. I actually have been ecperimenting with using a tiny bit of pressure on the balsa with the idea that it presses the edge slightly down into the soft balsa and gives a tiny bit of convexness, which my mentor is always raving about. Anyway it gives a brilliant but very comfortable edge. As long as I keep the shave angle low I don't get cut.

Recently I saw pics from a microscope of crox and diamond particles. The crox particles are more rounded, with small, even facets on them. The diamond particles were all over the place at .5 micron. So it is pretty obvious why the crox gives more smoothness than .5 or .25 diamond. As for the .1, well, the particles are just so small that they can't make as big of a scratch in the steel.

I am really thinking about getting some of that CBN stuff. Should be even smoother.

Can you imagine that when you learn how to hone you are not even going to need pastes? so much money wasted on sprays... may be your mentor is saving that info for later, like Honing 400?

Originally Posted by mainaman

Can you imagine that when you learn how to hone you are not even going to need pastes? so much money wasted on sprays... may be your mentor is saving that info for later, like Honing 400?

Actually he hones on film. But we both use pasted balsa for maintainence of our regular shaving razors cause it just works so good without having to break out film and wet the plate and stick it on just so and etc etc. Instead of shaving until the edge is dull, our edges never get dull in the first place. Or rarely anyhow. And then, the .5 micron will bring it back nice.

I have learned to hone. I have taken several razors from cant shave to can shave. Honed out some big chips and even made a couple of shorties when the toe or heel were broke or severely screwed. I don't have the experience you guys have, but I have used film of course and the following stones: King 1k, Norton 220/1k, Norton 4k/8k, soft/edium/hard/translucent Arkansas progression, (my Dad's stones) and I was even walked through my first coticule dilucote edge last weekend. Oh, and Chinese 12k natural finisher, and Naniwa Super Stone 12k finisher. I haven't used the lower grit Naniwas and I haven't used a Jnat or thurengians or welsh slates or charnley forests or anything like that, nor any of those Shaptons everybody raves about. And I don't have access to a barber hone to try, either. But I get good edges with what I got to work with. I use that stuff for getting it sharp in the first place, not touchups because the balsa is convenient and when you get the system nailed down pat it keeps a really good edge. My razor guru has razors that haven't touched a hone in years and looks like they never will again as long as he has them.

I don't waste money on sprays. Don't even have any sprays. The diamond paste is cheap when you remember you only need to refresh the balsa with a tiny blob the size of a BB about once a month.

True, I am still learning, and looking forward to Honing 400, but I am starting to get a handle on what I like to use and what is worth spending a few bucks on and what isn't worth spending a few hundred bucks on.

I don't NEED pastes now, but I sure like them and I always will.

Originally Posted by TulaneBoy

Actually he hones on film. But we both use pasted balsa for maintainence of our regular shaving razors cause it just works so good without having to break out film and wet the plate and stick it on just so and etc etc. Instead of shaving until the edge is dull, our edges never get dull in the first place. Or rarely anyhow. And then, the .5 micron will bring it back nice.

I have learned to hone. I have taken several razors from cant shave to can shave. Honed out some big chips and even made a couple of shorties when the toe or heel were broke or severely screwed. I don't have the experience you guys have, but I have used film of course and the following stones: King 1k, Norton 220/1k, Norton 4k/8k, soft/edium/hard/translucent Arkansas progression, (my Dad's stones) and I was even walked through my first coticule dilucote edge last weekend. Oh, and Chinese 12k natural finisher, and Naniwa Super Stone 12k finisher. I haven't used the lower grit Naniwas and I haven't used a Jnat or thurengians or welsh slates or charnley forests or anything like that, nor any of those Shaptons everybody raves about. And I don't have access to a barber hone to try, either. But I get good edges with what I got to work with. I use that stuff for getting it sharp in the first place, not touchups because the balsa is convenient and when you get the system nailed down pat it keeps a really good edge. My razor guru has razors that haven't touched a hone in years and looks like they never will again as long as he has them.

I don't waste money on sprays. Don't even have any sprays. The diamond paste is cheap when you remember you only need to refresh the balsa with a tiny blob the size of a BB about once a month.

True, I am still learning, and looking forward to Honing 400, but I am starting to get a handle on what I like to use and what is worth spending a few bucks on and what isn't worth spending a few hundred bucks on.

I don't NEED pastes now, but I sure like them and I always will.

So you are telling us that you have basically no significant experience with hones and sprays yet you give advise to people about them.
I would really appreciate if you stop talking about your guru and what he says, because for all we know he may be an average user. It is much more appreciated when you share your own experience, instead of referring to a third person that is not around to speak for themselves. Finally, about those razors that last for years with no honing, you know the people on this forums know about edges, we also know that Adamantium is yet to be invented.

Originally Posted by mainaman

So you are telling us that you have basically no significant experience with hones and sprays yet you give advise to people about them.
I would really appreciate if you stop talking about your guru and what he says, because for all we know he may be an average user. It is much more appreciated when you share your own experience, instead of referring to a third person that is not around to speak for themselves. Finally, about those razors that last for years with no honing, you know the people on this forums know about edges, we also know that Adamantium is yet to be invented.

OUCH! Anybody else?

Actually I think my advice or observations were mostly about pasted balsa. And if I violated any rules here, please point them out to me. Of course I value your criticism of my observations, especially if it comes with a rational explanation for your stance.

Can you think of anything that I have said, from a technical standpoint, that you take issue with? Let's discuss it because I could maybe learn something and maybe others could, too.

What's wrong with being an average user? Is this forum only for acknowledged experts with Doctorates from Shapton University? If so then I guess I better butt out. But aren't my comments, if they are wrong, opportunities to explain your own observations and opinions? Well, I don't want to be a PITA so I will stop with the logic already. I give up. You win. I won't post any more on this thread unless I am invited to do so.

Originally Posted by TulaneBoy

OUCH! Anybody else?

Actually I think my advice or observations were mostly about pasted balsa. And if I violated any rules here, please point them out to me. Of course I value your criticism of my observations, especially if it comes with a rational explanation for your stance.

Can you think of anything that I have said, from a technical standpoint, that you take issue with? Let's discuss it because I could maybe learn something and maybe others could, too.

What's wrong with being an average user? Is this forum only for acknowledged experts with Doctorates from Shapton University? If so then I guess I better butt out. But aren't my comments, if they are wrong, opportunities to explain your own observations and opinions? Well, I don't want to be a PITA so I will stop with the logic already. I give up. You win. I won't post any more on this thread unless I am invited to do so.

Attachment 144377

The fact of you having to ask such things is proof in itself, no??