Thread: Honemeister accredidation?

Originally Posted by Chris L

Now I can go back to my daydream world of razors when I'm not actually on SRP and add to my "happy place" in thinking about what it would be like if we did actually implement something like you've described here.

While there certainly are members here that have been straight shaving for decades, I think the current revival is relatively young, but nevertheless here to stay. The social structure for the people indulging themselves into the merits of the straight razor is still in its early stages of natural development. A certain degree of anarchy is typical for that, and I think many guys like that. After all, straight razor shaving is a bit of a stray activity for the gamma male of humankind. Nevertheless, structures are bound to develop as time goes by. Look! We suddenly have a Wiki! Who would have thought that would happen, when the same idea was strongly dismissed less than 6 months ago by the majority of the then high profile members? We have a boom of gettogether's, and my estimate is it won't be long before we have an annually SRP Achievement Award instated for people who made a remarkable contribution to the revival of our art and hobby. (You already know who will be the first winner of the SRP-award and the Maestro Livi custom with the diamond inlay, that comes with it. The persons name ends with a double consonant).
Slowly more formalized structures will fill the voids. Some people will regret that and nostalgically look back to the times when the SR-community was just a forum on the worldwide web. They will tell you it just isn't the same anymore... Look at the Classifieds, and the complaints about how the coziness from the B/S/T-forum got lost. Still, the B/S/T is dead, outgrown, left behind for something better organised. That doesn't mean the coziness is gone. It just moved elsewhere.
The webcast, imho, is a promising new media tool for hosting classes about honing, shaving and other straight razor related topics.
In Belgium and Holland, one can follow straight razor shaving courses, and even seperate courses about honing. Most of them are organised by stores that sell shaving gear, and I'm told there's such huge interest that there's an actual waiting list. It's not entirely sure that everything they teach during those courses is equally valid. (I'm formulating carefully here).
Having a decent method for evaluation and instruction of people that want to teach about the art of shaving, or just like to have formal accreditation for their skills, should be of great help. I understand that the avarage shaver/collector/hobbyist would not really be interested, and that those who are already making money (not my goal) are not necessarily keen on expanding the group of players in the field.
As Bruno pointed out, for forum moderators, conflicting interests could arise when setting up such a system. But it wouldn't be difficult to keep the powers separated, and assign different people to the task of divising the SRP accreditation program.

Keeping the dream alive,

Bart.

Originally Posted by Bart

As Bruno pointed out, for forum moderators, conflicting interests could arise when setting up such a system. But it wouldn't be difficult to keep the powers separated, and assign different people to the task of divising the SRP accreditation program.

Keeping the dream alive,

Bart.

I don't want to discourage people from brainstorming about this, But if there is enough interest in this item, imo the best way to go forward would be to start a separate website, and get a number of experienced shavers on board from different sites: SRP, B&B, SMF...

Have the administrator accept accreditation requests, and send a couple of dull razors to the prospects.
The admin then distributes the honed razors to test shavers without telling them who honed them.
Based on those results, the prospect is recognized or not.

Being a separate group is a better guarantee for remaining impartial.
The credibility of the board would be determined by the people whom it is composed of, and whom it accredits.

This way you keep it impartial, you make it broader than SRP, and you make it 'not my problem'.
The possibility or even appearance of bias and conflict of interest, and other potential problems prevent us from being involved.
Especially the admins cannot be involved. But since the admins (or Lynn anyway) own the site, they can't NOT be involved if SRP is involved. And without their involvment, you cannot use the SRP moniker, or use SRP to conduct your business.

Imo you have to form some sort of ISO committee and build this idea from the ground up without our involvment. You can have SRP members on board obviously, but then we are not involved, and you can also include B&B members, which would be an issue if this would be an SRP thing.
I still think that SRP representatives should not be involved in the process, but if they want to, there would be a clear line of separation between here and there.

Am I reading this right?
Have you just "banned" this whole idea off SRP?

I'm not really buying the "let's keep unbiased" argument. Not that I mind, but this forum is filled with biased opinions. And anyone making money out of shaving related things can be easily submitted to a questioning of motives. High trees catch wind, they say in Dutch. There's not much one can do to prevent that. So far, members like Howard, Tony Miller, Lynn, Don and others have earned nothing but my respect and demonstrated how they can keep their commercial interests perfectly separated from posting on a thread, at times when such objectivity is expected and called for.

I think you know very well that the idea we're talking about is doomed to fail, without the support of a vibrant community of enthusiasts. While Lynn is the founder of this community and the owner of the site, I don't suppose he sees himself as the owner of the community. I regret that an initiative that would only serve to better spread valid knowledge about the art of shaving with a straight razor, can't find a base on a place like this.

Respectfully,
Bart.

No I didn't.

I just explained why it can't or shouldn't be 'SRP accreditation'
If you or someone else want to start an accreditation, it should be independent.
And Lynn owns SRP in a very real and legal way, just as Don and Lynn are the legal owners and proprietors of SRD.

conflict of interest does not mean that someone will take advantage of a situation, but that there is the possibility of such a thing.

I recently completed a mandatory training on data privacy and protection, and another general one 'code of conduct' (thanks to being in a large corp and being a sysadmin).
A lot of things revolve not only around not doing things, but also around preventing things from happening in the first place. I know that this can seem absurd, but the reality is that these things can also go wrong and reflect badly on SRP, and it is my responsibility to prevent that from happening.

Also, purely looking at the idea, you'd want B&B members as well, seeing as many here are also there, and some only there, and some only here. That way you'd get more exposure and acceptance.

Originally Posted by thebigspendur

yea, Mr Ellis was all for critiquing someone else's work as long as he was the one doing the critiquing of both his own work and others.

LMAO...........

Originally Posted by Bruno

I don't want to discourage people from brainstorming about this, But if there is enough interest in this item, imo the best way to go forward would be to start a separate website,

That thought had crossed my mind; a .org or something. With SRP I like the fact that it's IMO THE foremost repository for all things straight razor related. This is really an amazing place. Would there be enough of a desire in what we're talking about here to start up something separate? I don't think so at this point. I want to go on record with saying in complete honesty that in starting this thread, in no way did/do I feel there's something broken with SRP.



Chris L


Oh, and what does LMAO mean?

Originally Posted by Chris L

Oh, and what does LMAO mean?

Laughing my a$$ off.

Mark

Originally Posted by Chris L

That thought had crossed my mind; a .org or something. With SRP I like the fact that it's IMO THE foremost repository for all things straight razor related. This is really an amazing place. Would there be enough of a desire in what we're talking about here to start up something separate? I don't think so at this point. I want to go on record with saying in complete honesty that in starting this thread, in no way did/do I feel there's something broken with SRP.
?

Something like a .org would be ideal.
And you don't need to kickstart yet another shaving site. There are several already with large (well...) communities.
The .org would focus on the whole accreditation, testing, communication, networking, ... business.
You would be free of course to talk about it here, and invite members to participate.
You could organize tests etc.

Kickstarting a completely new shaving site would be a challenge. But working with members from existing sites, you could perhaps achieve some sort of unification of standards.
You are never going to get all people to agree on the best way to hone razors.
But what you can do is judge the result, no matter how it was achieved.
If someone can hone your test razors, and they get judged shaveready by your panel of experienced shavers from different sites, then he deserves accreditation no matter how he hones his razors.

I think you should also be able to invite B&B members, SMF members, and independents like e.g Bill Ellis (just naming him as an example), the people from the various stores that also offer honing services, ...

If you can get enough people on board, you will have a chance of becoming a standards body, or something similar. This whole thing is an interesting concept, and an interesting challenge.
And anyone willing to try would be free to discuss it here and work with our members, as long as the actual business is not run from SRP, or uses SRP as a moniker (Apart from my moderator reasons to keep things separate, it would make it harder to attract non-SRP participation, which you'd need imo).

[QUOTE=Chris L;273776
Oh, and what does LMAO mean?[/QUOTE]

Laughing my ass off.

When you talk honing it has such a personal twist that something accredited would be really impossible it is and art there is not one best way. Or even one best edge. Every blade is different and sharp is different on each one. Sharp is also different to different people. Some like it coming of Diamond some like coming of Cro some like no paste. Someone can come of a 8 and be thrilled. Some like it scalpel sharp and some people that would kill there face. When you learn to hone and you get an edge you love you are there. Also there are so many ways to get a great edge we could argue for days. It is not a step 1 step 2 step 3 your accredited you got a sharp edge. Even thoughs of us who have honed a ton of razors will get that blade we can not get to hit and then someone else tries and gets it. If someone would be a ccredited does not mean you will like there edge.
Find someone with a great reputation that you like thier edge and there you go. Learn how do hone till you get the edge you like bingo. There are so many varibles a set system would be impossible and never agreed upon. Hell we sit around and argue what hone to use.
That is not even getting into the varibles of how people shave. Which makes a huge difference in the evalution of the honing.
I am not shooting down the idea just putting it all in perspective.

Don

I agree 100% with everything Don said there. It is pretty much what I was getting at a while back. Variables. Just something else to think about I guess.