Thread: Honemeister accredidation?

I agree with you guys.....to a point. Absolutely there are many ways to hone a razor. Just today after reading what Gary aka Traveler wrote in a post about honing on frosted glass with pastes added another option in my mind.

It's been mentioned in theory about having a blind panel test razors. Yes, shaving comfort preference can vary from user to user, and yes, sharpness can vary, but ALL razors must at least be at a certain level of shaving sharpness to be worth a darn. I don't think, or maybe I would like to meet a guy that says shaving right off a DMT D8E is just the dreamiest thing out there. An experienced shaver may prefer his straight razors to be feather like off a Shapton 30k; I would argue that same experienced shaver would at the least he'd have to admit that an edge expertly honed off a coticule was a well honed edge regardless of his preference.

I guess my point is that PREFERENCES in an edge absolutely differ. But the preferences differ much more than the actual difference in a well honed edge regardless of how it got there. We could debate the definition of a well honed edge, but I believe there are some standards that define a well honed edge. If someone prefers their edges to be less than "feather" sharp and test shaves an edge that IS honed to or almost to that level, that person wouldn't be justified in saying they thought the expertly honed wicked edge was crap.

Maybe if anything at all, we could have a more formalized mentor program on SRP where experienced members could teach and those wanting to learn could publicly share their progress? I think something like that would be a great program.


Chris L

Don is 100% on the money.(And diplomatic too!) HOW we like our razors honed is a personal preference-and even then each and every razor in a rotation shaves differently,.

Certification, mentor program-Seriously? There is NO exact formula-every blade is different, there is a multitude of techniques,hones etc. Nothing matters if YOU don't like shaving with YOUR razor-regardless of who hones it. Really,it's just a hobby-isn't it? Its supposed to be fun, you experiment and gain experience then share with others. Justify spending EVEN MORE money It's not surgery(hopefully) its just about SHAVING.

My second 2 cents here.....
I think what Chris was originally talking about is the ability to set a bevel, refine that bevel, and bring that edge to a nice even shaving sharpness....This is definable as a razors edge can only get so sharp (please some smart guy insert the .0000 of an inch that is the limit here) how smooth you can get that edge, after that stage, is the art involved with honing, and is undefinable, except to each persons face....

I think the certification would just be "This person can make a razor ready to shave with"

I'll be the one to disagree then.

For the sake of a theoretical example, ask 10 guys to shave with 10 razors within the 5/8 - 6/8 range, all honed to meet at least a minimal standard of shavereadiness. Ask them to order the edges according to preference. I guarantee you they will all favor the same edges. I also guarantee you those will be the sharpest edges.
Many of us shave with lesser blades, but give a guy the means and the knowledge to put a better edge on his razor, he will never look back.

The variance in honing is in how a given blade responds to a chosen hone. Different razors may need different approaches, when it comes to put the ultimate edge on them. It guess it takes a tremendous amount of experience for knowing how an unknown razor will respond and how to proceed. Luckily, most of us hone our own herd, so we have time to get to know them individually, and find out what they prefer.

I regularly meet up with a few fellow straight shavers. Because of a beautiful old barber chair (I know we're weird) we recently shaved each other's faces. I had honed up 4 razors for that purpose in the afternoon prior to the big shave night, but wasn't able to test shave them, because I didn't want to miss the fun at night. The razors all received the same treatment, with the same intermediate tests, equal number of strokes. After the shave sessions, the wifes (also present) commented on who got the best shave, which wasn't too difficult, because the differences were obvious enough. I have assessed the razors we used with true shave tests during the week following our big shave night. Not surprisingly, the guy that got the best shave, also had the sharpest edge. And the unlucky fellow that went home with a slight stubble on his chin and a nick near his adam's apple, had the least sharp razor. On my own face, on known territory I could manage to get a decent shave form it, but it was hard work and not very comfortable.

It was an experience that in the end completely confirmed my conviction that what we call a superior edge, is a fairly objective notion. How to get it, is often an elusive activity, at least to me it is. It would be easy to say it's the razor, and even easier to say it's my skin, and come here to SRP to post about how my skin likes razor A and dislikes razor B. And if such reasoning makes some of the members feel better about themselves, by all means that's what's a forum is all about, isn't it? But for me personnally, I'm pretty sure it all comes down to my honing skills, which I would like to improve.

I have not the least bit of interest in a "who has the sharpest blade" contest. Anyone with a hone, a CrO strop and few decent razors to try can turn up with a wicked edge that lasts a shave or two, maybe three.

It's the finer points in learning how to hone a razor, that I'm after. Why does my Bartmann takes such a wonderfully sharp and lasting edge? Why does my Dovo needs to be honed with two layers of tape, once the initial bevel is set, to take that same wonderful edge, although it doesn't last as long. How am I going to approach my "Eclipse" wedge, once I find time for restoring it?
There's a ton of valuable information burried deep in SRP's thread archive. There's an even bigger amount of knowledge present in the minds of many members that no longer actively follow the forum. I can't possibly reinvent the wheel for every question I pose myself regarding hones and honing (although I like reinventing wheels). I just wish there was a better flow of knowledge, coming from people I could trust to have the right credentials. Instead of wondering everytime I 'm unsuccesfull in trying to follow an advice offered in a thread, whether it is me missing something, or if it's just plain wrong advice.

Bart.

well i have read through the thread here and man it has brought up some excellent discussion, i too hone my own and have on occasion recieved a payment for services, now this being said i did it to help out and was ready to accept some critisism because i dont consider myself a honemeister.

I also sold a good few razors and sent them out shave ready, to my standards, and as of yet had no reports of any problems. This can be looked on in two ways.

1.People are too polite to say they werent.
2. They were indeed sufficiently shave ready.

Either way i dont consider myself a honer of any great degree,an amateur at best.

The idea of accreditation to me is as someone has already said evident through the forum,those who offer services on a regular basis and have returning and new customers and therefore a good reputation. It also serves as a benchmark to those who recieve their razors back and they have a goal to strive for.

I like things the way they are and i have in my head who i would ask to do my razors and Im sure most of you do too so Im fine with that, accreditation in my opinion isnt really necessary, but to the guys who submitted the idea, you put forth an excellent idea and plans.

regards,simon

Originally Posted by Bart

I'll be the one to disagree then.

For the sake of a theoretical example, ask 10 guys to shave with 10 razors within the 5/8 - 6/8 range, all honed to meet at least a minimal standard of shavereadiness. Ask them to order the edges according to preference. I guarantee you they will all favor the same edges. I also guarantee you those will be the sharpest edges.
Many of us shave with lesser blades, but give a guy the means and the knowledge to put a better edge on his razor, he will never look back.

The variance in honing is in how a given blade responds to a chosen hone. Different razors may need different approaches, when it comes to put the ultimate edge on them. It guess it takes a tremendous amount of experience for knowing how an unknown razor will respond and how to proceed. Luckily, most of us hone our own herd, so we have time to get to know them individually, and find out what they prefer.

I regularly meet up with a few fellow straight shavers. Because of a beautiful old barber chair (I know we're weird) we recently shaved each other's faces. I had honed up 4 razors for that purpose in the afternoon prior to the big shave night, but wasn't able to test shave them, because I didn't want to miss the fun at night. The razors all received the same treatment, with the same intermediate tests, equal number of strokes. After the shave sessions, the wifes (also present) commented on who got the best shave, which wasn't too difficult, because the differences were obvious enough. I have assessed the razors we used with true shave tests during the week following our big shave night. Not surprisingly, the guy that got the best shave, also had the sharpest edge. And the unlucky fellow that went home with a slight stubble on his chin and a nick near his adam's apple, had the least sharp razor. On my own face, on known territory I could manage to get a decent shave form it, but it was hard work and not very comfortable.

It was an experience that in the end completely confirmed my conviction that what we call a superior edge, is a fairly objective notion. How to get it, is often an elusive activity, at least to me it is. It would be easy to say it's the razor, and even easier to say it's my skin, and come here to SRP to post about how my skin likes razor A and dislikes razor B. And if such reasoning makes some of the members feel better about themselves, by all means that's what's a forum is all about, isn't it? But for me personnally, I'm pretty sure it all comes down to my honing skills, which I would like to improve.

I have not the least bit of interest in a "who has the sharpest blade" contest. Anyone with a hone, a CrO strop and few decent razors to try can turn up with a wicked edge that lasts a shave or two, maybe three.

It's the finer points in learning how to hone a razor, that I'm after. Why does my Bartmann takes such a wonderfully sharp and lasting edge? Why does my Dovo needs to be honed with two layers of tape, once the initial bevel is set, to take that same wonderful edge, although it doesn't last as long. How am I going to approach my "Eclipse" wedge, once I find time for restoring it?
There's a ton of valuable information burried deep in SRP's thread archive. There's an even bigger amount of knowledge present in the minds of many members that no longer actively follow the forum. I can't possibly reinvent the wheel for every question I pose myself regarding hones and honing (although I like reinventing wheels). I just wish there was a better flow of knowledge, coming from people I could trust to have the right credentials. Instead of wondering everytime I 'm unsuccesfull in trying to follow an advice offered in a thread, whether it is me missing something, or if it's just plain wrong advice.

Bart.

That my friend is why this is and art an not something like mechanic are Tech Dude that can be a credited to many variables were not talking a few we are talking in the 10's of thousands. There was also mentioned well everyone wants that super keen edge of a 30. that is far from true some people skin can not take that others just do not like it. Me and Lynn are a great example with both like are edges a little different I like mine as sharp as I can get with out and over one down to .25 or what ever it takes Lynn does not. I have had razors sent back because they said they gave a horrible shave. I then shave and perfect. I back them off send them back and they love them. If there were not so many variables there would be a machine. This all makes the world of sense in theroy but would be not as valuable as you think. I know its a lot but research and more importantly honing yourself is the best answer paying attention to the feel the sound and testing after each move to learn what you are getting. And then all the different blades and metals all hone differently.

I will say thank you for bringing up ideas we need more of that. But some ideas might not always work or might need tweaked.

Thanks for your reply, Don.

You're right, of course.

Personal experience and practice will never replace frontal learning methods.
Perhaps a good mentor that lives around the corner could make a big difference.
Sadly not present here.

SRP is the next best thing. Of that I'm sure.

with respect,
Bart.

A good Mentor is great my Master was Lynn and I am still his young Padawan no idea how to spell that.

Maybe to continue fostering discussion, quite simply because it's fun, this thread could evolve from an accredidation discussion to discussion or brainstorming about hatching an online SRP mentoring program. I like what Don said about mentors. Sharing each others progress and challenges for those of us that aren't absolute experts and watching each other evolve would be very cool.

Chris L