Thread: high grit then paste

I used to take my razors from 9um (1200grit) all the way down to 0.5um (30000grit) using diamond lapping film on a precision granite, and then maybe paste them.

After taking a look at my edges under a quality microscope, I determined that going to grits higer than 1um(16000grit) on the hone is what thinned out the egde too much and appeared to lead to a wavy, perhaps fragie edge.

My current proceedure is to hone only until 3um (8000grit) and then I smooth it out with a pasted hanging strop (sometimes that's a 1um diamond paste, sometimes Chrome ox)

Here's an edge straight off the 1um pasted strop (you can see the vertical lines are from the 3um hone, the diagonal lines are from the 1um paste):


I have never found using pates to create an edge that was too thin, but I believe that has to do with the fact that I use hanging strops, and that alters the edge geometry slightly convexing the bevel.

I tried shaving direct off of 0.5um honed edges, but found them to be harsh for me.

Originally Posted by kevint

Yes you did
That was interesting, the German School.
Until we start talking about thinning edges until they break down then nurturing them back to "critical mass" how do you know it's sharp as possible? (assume we don't care how long it lasts because it is too easy to get back)

Ya know there are some pretty smart fellows on this forum, a few that really stand out when it comes to the experimentation on honing...
Randy Tuttle, Mparker are two that really stand out also Josh Earl and Alan /afdavis are in this category too.... these guys did a lot of this work and experimented with a lot of different ways to get the most out of an edge... I read much of their old stuff and built from there.... But regardless of how you get there a razors edge can only get so sharp (smart guy insert .0001 of an inch here please) Once your honing reaches that level yer done, there really is a limit...
I suggest you take a American steel extra hollow ground razor, and push the limit, take it all the way out to .25 diamond maybe even .10 and push it a little more, this will show you just how sharp they can get... At that point you will know the upper limit of sharp, and you know you can reach it... Then back it down one notch and go for smooth and long lasting edges.... OH yeah, let us know how that puppy shaves but ya better be really light on the face (can ya tell I've done this )

What works for me is to use pastes exclusively, especially the diamond ones can cut pretty fast. I only use stones to set the bevel, and the pastes can replace any fine grit stones. I do my final finishing on CrO. It gives a smoother edge than fine micron diamond, though they are equally sharp.

This thread has been a great read.
We obviously all have different ways of achieving the same goal and this is what makes honing art as well as science.
I think, ultimately, if one's skills are up to the task the steel decides how sharp, smooth & durable it's edge will be.

Originally Posted by kevint

...
Why go to the expense of aquiring an ultra high grit hone if you are going to finish on a paste?
...

I experimented with pastes. I like a honed edge better. Use what gives you the best shave.

Originally Posted by Seraphim

Here's an edge straight off the 1um pasted strop (you can see the vertical lines are from the 3um hone, the diagonal lines are from the 1um paste)

Does this meant that you hone straight with no x-pattern and strop with almost a 45 degree x-pattern?

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Ya know there are some pretty smart fellows on this forum, a few that really stand out when it comes to the experimentation on honing...
Randy Tuttle, Mparker are two that really stand out also Josh Earl and Alan /afdavis are in this category too.... these guys did a lot of this work and experimented with a lot of different ways to get the most out of an edge... I read much of their old stuff and built from there.... But regardless of how you get there a razors edge can only get so sharp (smart guy insert .0001 of an inch here please) Once your honing reaches that level yer done, there really is a limit...
I suggest you take a American steel extra hollow ground razor, and push the limit, take it all the way out to .25 diamond maybe even .10 and push it a little more, this will show you just how sharp they can get... At that point you will know the upper limit of sharp, and you know you can reach it... Then back it down one notch and go for smooth and long lasting edges.... OH yeah, let us know how that puppy shaves but ya better be really light on the face (can ya tell I've done this )

what was the edge dimension you achieved?

fwiw .0001 inch is about 2.5 micron. I think you left out a zero

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Ya know there are some pretty smart fellows on this forum, a few that really stand out when it comes to the experimentation on honing...
Randy Tuttle, Mparker are two that really stand out also Josh Earl and Alan /afdavis are in this category too.... these guys did a lot of this work and experimented with a lot of different ways to get the most out of an edge... I read much of their old stuff and built from there....

+1 and gssixgun too.

I have shaved with a blade that came off of my highest grit hone alone and then used CrO on that blade and the shave is smoother but not necessarily sharper than off of the hone alone. I don't use the Diamond Paste or spray since I got the high grit hones but they may be useful on some steels. I will try Jimmy's method with the Diamond Spray on some stubborn blades that I have. I am glad he found that trick. I have a Torry I need to bring up to speed.

bj

Originally Posted by 2Sharp

I have shaved with a blade that came off of my highest grit hone alone and then used CrO on that blade and the shave is smoother but not necessarily sharper than off of the hone alone. I don't use the Diamond Paste or spray since I got the high grit hones but they may be useful on some steels. I will try Jimmy's method with the Diamond Spray on some stubborn blades that I have. I am glad he found that trick. I have a Torry I need to bring up to speed.

bj

FWIW, I had used the paddle strop with 0.5 paste spread on it for the ATS 34 and it didn't get it. Of course I did go back to the hones with it but when I gave it 20 laps on that new felt strop Lynn put out with the 0.5 diamond spray it was like a different razor.

This was the first time I had used a hanging strop with paste. So it may be the strop, or it may be the spray as opposed to the paste or a combination of the two?

One way or the other it worked like a charm. The spray,needless to say,goes on a lot more evenly then the paste did. That also may have something to do with it. I followed the instructions and just gave it a light coating. I let it dry overnight too.