Thread: my first honing experience

Originally Posted by Cornelius

Looking at the pictures, I'd say the problem comes from not enough laps on the DMT. Look closely: there is already a double bevel after the BBW. And if you look really close, after the DMT there seems to be a tiny little bit of a double bevel. I'm guessing he would have needed a few more laps on the DMT.

+1

If you haven't used tape, the only possible explanation is that the razor was previously honed with several layers of tape. It's a common practice on wedges. Because of that, the bevel is much obtuser than normal. Your honing without tape is slowly replacing it with a new bevel with normal angle. You can actually see that your DMT scratches are not running all the way trough. It comes more apparent after the DMT and even more after polishing on the Coticule with water.

You must hone on the DMT till the new bevel runs all the way to the apex of the blade. That can take many 100's of laps. Check out the Magic Marker Test (MMT), great to see if the new bevel is completely developed yet, or more work is needed.
This is also a perfect example of a razor that would benefit the downstroking technique. Run the edge over the bottom of a glas jar once, so it dulls just enough to duck all sharpness tests such as the TNT and the shave arm hair test. Now you can hone on the DMT, till the entire edge starts to pass those tests again. That way, you can be sure of a complete bevel after the DMT.

You can read more about bevel-setting in this wiki article: Bevel-setting in theory and practice - Straight Razor Place Wiki

Don't you dare giving up on that razor. I'm taking this personal.

Bart.

i got 3 razors to do the hht with just some hones/whet rocks i had laying around the house and an inexpensive leather strop. wade & butcher, expert barber 400 from union cutlery, and a hand-made wedge i got for bout $11. man they are sharp. got another barnsley brothers that must have rock hard metal cause i cant seem to get that one as sharp as the others.

you better not give up on this blade.in that case all this help was===0
that will hurt

Well throwing in the towel was just one of the options but since Bart lives quite nearby and I'm afraid he has the capabilities to cut off all Belgian beer and chocolate supplies to the Netherlands ( just dont want to take the risk he actualy does) That is an option I dont have anymore..

So.. will I do a lot of laps on the DMT-E or shall I go for some laps on the DMT-F, then DMT-E.. BBW.. and then Coticule... Oh BTW I got a new BBW yesterday... do I need to break that one in as wel? or can I just lap it with the DMT-E

Thanks and I will keep you all posted...

Maarten

Originally Posted by mlangstr

Well throwing in the towel was just one of the options but since Bart lives quite nearby and I'm afraid he has the capabilities to cut off all Belgian beer and chocolate supplies to the Netherlands ( just dont want to take the risk he actualy does) That is an option I dont have anymore..

Yeah, right, you know how vindictive we Belgians can become...

Originally Posted by mlangstr

So.. will I do a lot of laps on the DMT-E or shall I go for some laps on the DMT-F, then DMT-E.. BBW.. and then Coticule... Oh BTW I got a new BBW yesterday... do I need to break that one in as wel? or can I just lap it with the DMT-E

You don't need to break in the BBW, (only diamond hones need to be broken in), but you do need to lap it till it's absolutely flat. <Hone Lapping 101 - Straight Razor Place Wiki
Your DMT-C (325 grit) is the perfect tool for that. By the way, your Coticule needs to be flat as well.

There's no harm in going to a coarser grit, as long as the DMT-F is properly broken in...
I personally add one layer of tape to the spine if I drop below the DMT-E, for the sake of protecting the spine from such coarse abrasion. It does introduce a slight obtuser angle, that you need to undo on the DMT-E later, but one layer of tape doesn't take long to correct. Just be absolutely sure that you remove all 600 grit scratches on the DMT-E, before going to the BBW.

Bart.

Eeh...stil not there. I realy like honing, but i also like sharp razor. There must be something i'm doing wrong here.
I've lapped both the coticule and the bbw, did the down stroke thing,did the MMT and that seemed ok. Honed on the dmt until the tpt made the razor feel sticky. Went to the bbw with slurry,watered it down.then the coticule. Stropped it and had a c@).y shave.
The razor does shave some..but not smooth.

Maarten

N

steps you have done are right.
Please check the edge everytime you changing stones.
i think mistake is this you are jumping out of dmt early.you haven't set bevel yet that is why all this happens.
you do have camera show us the edge again let 's see what will be our advise.'
As long as you are fighting we will fight together
i have struggled more then you when started this crazy habit.but now i am happy. i am sure you will be happy at the end too.just keep on fighting.show the edge please if you can show both sides of the blade picture it will help too.thank you

Originally Posted by mlangstr

Eeh...stil not there. I realy like honing, but i also like sharp razor. There must be something i'm doing wrong here.
I've lapped both the coticule and the bbw, did the down stroke thing,did the MMT and that seemed ok. Honed on the dmt until the tpt made the razor feel sticky. Went to the bbw with slurry,watered it down.then the coticule. Stropped it and had a c@).y shave.
The razor does shave some..but not smooth.

Maarten

N

Damn. It becomes weirder and weirder. Did yo try shaving arm hair, or passing the HHT when you came off the DMT? Did you end your work on the DMT with a set of extremely light laps?
How does the bevel look now? I reckon the double bevel issue should be completely gone by now. How did the TPT feel after the Blue? sharper or less sharp?
You did use only water on that Coticule, did you?

Sorry to ask so many questions.

I have an emergency plan (other than sending it to me and allow me to play with it ),
but I'm not ready to disclose it yet. If the bevel is good off the DMT, that razor should be up to par after 50 to 100 laps on the Blue with slurry and about the same on the Coticule with water.

Bart.

I didnt do the HHT or shave arm hair with it when I came off the DMT.. but I'm pretty sure it would have shaved armhair.. the TPT was sliding into the skin like butter all over the edge and I looked at the bevel every 10-20 laps to see how things where going.. I did the same on the BBW.. checked it regularly on the thumbpad and with the loupe. when it came of the DMT it felt a bit more course on the TP than after the BBW... it felt pretty smooth.. when I was done with slurry I just added a couple of drops of water until it was just water.. then I did about 100 laps with only water on the coticule.. I did see a very weird reflexion after stropping it was as if the edge was lighted up I could see it from most directions even when the bevel itself did not reflect..

I think I'll make some pictures of it this weekend.. but photographing, resizing uploading costs more time than honing this son of a knife...

But hey... I've got myself a nice new hobby

Maarten

Originally Posted by mlangstr

I did see a very weird reflexion after stropping it was as if the edge was lighted up I could see it from most directions even when the bevel itself did not reflect..

Normally, when you play with the razor under a good light source, you can make the bevel reflect the light into your eyes. You should be able to spot the reflection coming off the entire width of the bevel. Turn the razor a small degree further and the light reflection should disappear all at once. There should be only one reflection, because there should be only one flat bevel pane. If there's a very small region of reflection coming of the very edge, when you turn the razor at another angle than that of the main reflection, that's a sign there's something rounded, or convexed, or double bevelled. If you used a pasted strop, such reflection would be quite normal, since that relies on convexing the very edge a bit to make it keener, but in any other case, it's evidence of something not good. Maybe you lifted the spine during one or more of the finishing laps on the BBW or the Coticule. Maybe you're not reading that TPT well. Maybe there's something with your stroke. I reckon that your stropping is fine, since you shave with other razors without dulling them. I also think the bevel on that razor must have been ok when you came off the DMT, because it did shave hair. Nonetheless, with the DMT-Blue-Coticule progression, you need to maximize the keenness off the DMT, cause the rest of your progression is really only smoothing out the edge.

At this point, I would raise a slurry on the Coticule, do about 30 laps on that one, check with the TPT, perhaps do 30 more while washing the slurry down. If your previous heavy work on that fairly new DMT left the edge a bit marred, the slurry-massage will have dealt with it by now.
Next, go back to the DMT, really tune in and do 30 of your absolute lightest laps. They only serve to push the keenness of that good bevel. You should pass the HHT at this level. It's okay if you need to drag the hair accross the edge a little, as long as it pops. You could also try the mow arm hair above skin level test, which is basically the same thing. Don't proceed until you can manage to do this. I don't care if other people say the HHT is not reliable. I don't care if your razor passes the HHT, or not, by the time you finished it on the Coticule with water. I 'm only telling you that, with this progression, it should pass right there, after those 30 DMT laps. If not, or only at certain parts of the blade, do 10 more and check again. Keep at it till the entire edge passes.
Only then, do 30 laps with light slurry on the Blue (Make it lighter than before. I'm not saying you made it too thick, I'm only saying that I would make it lighter than before if I was honing that razor.) I normally do more than 30 myself, but we're aiming for more sharpness here, if it's too harsh you can always come back after test shaving and do a few more. But right now, let's get some SHARPNESS into that thing. Stay as low on the pressure as on those DMT laps. I bet you're going to loose the HHT-ability at his point, which is nothing to worry about. However, should it still be passing, it's time to put a bottle of Champagne in the fridge. Next, do 50 laps on your Coticule with plain water. Again as light as possible. Strop 100 laps on clean leather.

If this doesn't work, I 'll disclose plan B.

Bart.