Thread: Updates on the Dragons Tongue?

I thought I'd check in and see if there were any new views or conclusions concerning this Welsh slate stone. I'm surprised there haven't been more threads about it, but then the Search feature doesn't like stuff like "DT", which is a real pain.

I've read that some consider the stone about 8000 in grit, others think of it more as a finishing stone, say 12,000 grit, like the Chinese 12K.

Has there been any concensus? Is it a sharpener or a finisher?

If it's a finisher - Is it faster than a Chinese 12K?
Can this stone provide an edge that needs nothing more than a strop visit? Is a touch of Chromium Oxide needed afterwards?

If it's a sharpener, how many strokes does it take to refresh an edge? How rough of an edge does it leave?

Finally, is there a link to the supplier?

That's a fine series of questions, and I am curious as well...

If they are half good, I will get one myself.

Originally Posted by Spatterdash

I thought I'd check in and see if there were any new views or conclusions concerning this Welsh slate stone. I'm surprised there haven't been more threads about it, but then the Search feature doesn't like stuff like "DT", which is a real pain.

Try google search with the right paramaters: http://straightrazorpalace.com/gener...tml#post242887

I've read that some consider the stone about 8000 in grit, others think of it more as a finishing stone, say 12,000 grit, like the Chinese 12K.

I'd guess its at 5000 or lower

Has there been any concensus? Is it a sharpener or a finisher?

I think its not a finishing stone. May be coarser than a blue belgium

If it's a finisher - Is it faster than a Chinese 12K?
Can this stone provide an edge that needs nothing more than a strop visit? Is a touch of Chromium Oxide needed afterwards?

It is quite slow. you need finer hones and possibly CrOx afterwards

If it's a sharpener, how many strokes does it take to refresh an edge? How rough of an edge does it leave?

Haven't counted it yet, cause I don't like this stone much

Finally, is there a link to the supplier?

I would not know of one, bought it second hand.

It is not as good as a chinese 12k from the two times I have tried to use it as a finisher. I think it is less than 12k, but I don't have anything in the 8k range to compare it to other than a coticle or some arkansas stones, both of which leave a different kind of edge and act very differently (not to mention both are naturals as well). I have gotten a shave off of one, using it by itself and ending with leather only, but I could only bring myself to use it wtg. I would have to use it a lot more before I could tell you anything about it with any certainty. It was easy enough to lap and does generate a slurry. I have yet to see how it performs with a slurry. You can buy direct from the supplier at:

Inigo Jones Welsh Slate Products

or off ebay for a little bit more money (3 left?):

Welsh Dragons Tongue Water Hone for Open Razors & Tools - eBay (item 310129965087 end time Apr-18-09 05:05:37 PDT)

The one I got was from the supplier and I have had no issues with it. The sides, not the ends, come chamfered already. It looked a little rough to give it a whirl right out of the box, so I lapped it first, leaving it with a very smooth surface.

I've made a few posts on the DT. I'm still trying to work out how best to use it, I was expecting it to be similar to a Chinese 12K, but mine seems to be a completely different beast. So I need to change tack.

It cuts faster than a coticule with light slurry. It has a similar scratch size to the coti, but gives a more shiny, slightly mirrored finish. Yet ... the result is not as sharp. I can shave after using the DT, but it takes 3 or 4 passes to get a really good result.

Having said that ... I now think the DT needs to be soaked in water. I really want to make it work, I will persevere.

I just got mine about two weeks ago from Inigo Jones. I have lapped it, but haven't had a chance to use it yet.

My DT looks and feels very much like the Mueller-branded Thurinigan that I own. Both are a darker blue/black color, a silky texture after lapping, and have a similar surface sheen. So, I'm inclined to think the DT will be similar in honing performance too. I reckoned that my Mueller Thurigian was in the 6K - 8K range based on feel during a test shave, and the observed scratch pattern via a microscope.

I'll have to post more definiive findings on my DT after I've had opportunities to use it.

Well I use mine after my Norton 8k and I find that it smooths the edge out, but not sure if it makes it any sharper.

Not sure if I agree with it being around 5k, but being a natural stone, some could be finer than others.

Steven

OK, this thread motivated me to do a quick 'n' dirty comparison with the coticule this morning. Disclaimer: not a scientific comparison in any respect, just a bit of feedback on this morning's shave experience!

I took a vintage 6/8 Sheffield steel which needed a touch-up on the hones. I went straight to the DT hone, soaked it for 5 minutes, did 30 very light laps, adding water every 10. Shaved on side of my face.
Result: quite a smooth shave, but the edge was not as sharp as I like it. Yes, could definitely have completed the shave with it, but definitely not as close a shave as I am used to. I was, however, surprised at how smooth the edge was.

Half way through the shave, I took my coti/bbw natural combo (coti side is hard and yellow/green in colour), and slapped some lather from the brush onto it. I then did 20 very light laps, adding water to the lather after 10 laps.
Result: definitely slightly sharper edge, and closer shave. The shave was smoother and closer than off the DT.

In my opinion, nothing beats the smoothness of the edge off a coti, but the DT certainly seemed close to it and definitely smoother than off Norton stones, or diamond pastes in my experience. I also don't believe you get as keen an edge from the DT as from the coti with water/lather.

I have no idea where this stone should fit in any honing progression. Certainly, I would not use it after my coti for finishing, or even instead of the coti. I might try it between BBW and coti, but to be honest with you I don't see the point.

I have not tried to set a bevel with it. Would that even be possible? I would love for someone with a wider range of hones to do some more work with this hone to see where it might fit, but right now I'll leave it on the shelf as eye candy.

I've lapped mine now with P320
and will give it another try.